Episode 47 - Never Take the Simplest Things for Granted with Guest Zandra Jo Galvan

Shownotes:

Get ready, friends! Zandra is a podcast party! Known for her positivity and her ability to lift others up, ZJG still faces big challenges and her own imposter syndrome. Listen as she shares her secrets to winking at challenges and fixing her crown when it falls.

About Our Guest:

Zandra Jo Galvan has served as Superintendent of the Greenfield Union School District since August 10, 2017. Zandra has worked in public education since 1993 and began her career as an elementary classroom teacher for GUSD where she also attended kindergarten through graduation. Returning to serve as Superintendent allowed her childhood dreams to come true.

Twitter: @zjgalvan  Instagram: @zangalvan

About Lainie:

Lainie Rowell is an educator, international consultant, podcaster, and TEDx speaker. She is the lead author of Evolving Learner and a contributing author of Because of a Teacher. Her latest book, Evolving with Gratitude, was just released. An experienced teacher and district leader, her expertise includes learner-driven design, community building, online/blended learning, and professional learning. Learn more at linktr.ee/lainierowell.

Twitter - @LainieRowell 

Instagram - @LainieRowell

Evolving with Gratitude, the book, is now available! Purchase here! 

You can also get bulk orders for your staff (10 copies or more) at a discounted price! Just fill out the form linked below and someone will get back to you ASAP! bit.ly/ewgbulkdiscount

Transcript:

Lainie Rowell: Hello, hello, my friends. We have Zandra Jo Galvan with us today. Hi Zandra. How are you?

Zandra Jo Galvan: Hi, Lainie. I'm doing fabulous today. Thanks so much for having me on your podcast. I'm excited.

Lainie Rowell: I'm excited. I'm thrilled, and I know you're super busy and you've got a lot going on, so I'm gonna try and keep you moving and onto your rest of your day, but I just am grateful for this little bit of time we get together.

So, I'm gonna say a little bit about you, Zandra, but it's going to be insufficient and I'd like you to, to jump in with all the other, at least some of the other amazing things. I think we could be here all day with you sharing all the wonderful work you're doing, but hit some of the highlights that I will miss.

But just to start off with Zandra Jo Galvan is the Superintendent of Greenfield Union School District. She's been in public education since 93. Oh my gosh. I just saw the funniest thing. I think it was on Instagram and someone was talking about 30 years ago, and I went, yay, the seventies. And they're like, no, 1993.

I'm the seventies baby. That hit me so hard. I was like, wait, oh my gosh, 30 years ago isn't the seventies anymore? I'm showing my ages anyways.

Zandra Jo Galvan: I know, I think I'm in that same time warp with you.

Lainie Rowell: Exactly. Okay, so I, I have not done a good job of introducing you, but Zandra I'm gonna ask you to please tell us all, all the wonderful things you can.

Zandra Jo Galvan: Oh, thanks so much Lainie, and again, just a pleasure to like meet you as close to person as possible. But yes, I am so thrilled to be the superintendent of the Greenfield Union School District where I attended as a little girl from kindergarten through graduation. So that in itself is just an extra set of joy and passion in my heart when I get to walk through classrooms and see kids that I get to just motivate and inspire to be what I do or anything they want to do.

Super excited about that. I could just tell you yesterday I was in a preschool classroom where a little girl was admiring my heels. So what did I do? Got on the floor, took off my heels, put them on her. And she was just beaming with light. So the little things up to the big things that I get to do as superintendent just fills my heart with gratitude.

And so that's just a little bit about, yes, I'm here. Some of the other things that I get to do and I say I get to do them because I'm super fortunate. To be able to be a person that build relationships with others and really leans on that side of the interpersonal skillset that we get to just possess in the emotional intelligence that so many of us lean on as just a character trait of how I was raised as a child.

So some of the things I get to do that are, you know, are on some of the things that are on my docket is I get to be the president a fabulous organization called CALSA, right here in California. It's the California Association of Latin Superintendents and Administrators. I get to be the president. I get to be on the board for ALAS, which is the association of the Latin School Administrators and Superintendents on the national level.

I get to be a mentor for aspiring superintendents in lots of different places. AASA is one of 'em that is true to my heart. For ACSA, which is the California Administrator Organization for District Administrator. Also with them and I know they just merged I think with some other like FETC and some of those other organizations and ISTE.

So I'm just really proud and honored to be able to be asked to do those kinds of things cuz people see value in what I bring and it's so reciprocal when I get to inspire someone else, they inspire me just as much and. Yeah, just, that's just a little bit of what I get to do in my spare time. .

Lainie Rowell: Well, I wish people could see you.

You light up when you talk and you make me light up when you talk. And it's just so wonderful that mindset you have of, "I get to". From the little things to the big things and all the stuff you're doing within your district and beyond your district to really build everyone up. Thank you for some of those highlights. And now I'm gonna ask you what, what some people say is the toughest question. I ask the first one, and I mean, you exude this in everything you do, but I just would love to hear in your own words, what does gratitude mean to you?

Zandra Jo Galvan: Oh, that is like how I live my life.

Gratitude, just incredibly grateful for us having the opportunity to be in this space. Gratitude for those that came before me, that came to this country just looking for a better life and never taking anything for granted. So gratitude is the simplest things we do every day from my social media posting a positive quote that inspires me, that hopefully inspires someone else.

And the gratitude for having a family that supports me that I love to support so much gratitude for being able to be in this position of superintendent, but then so grateful in having gratitude for all of the little things that I gave my whole life to leading up to this. When I was a classroom teacher, I was the best darn classroom teacher you could ever imagine.

Not looking for anything next level. I just wanted to give my entire being to that moment and live in that moment and do everything I can to be my best version of myself, because that would make my parents and my family proud. And then moving into a coaching thing, probably one of my favorite jobs was being an academic coach or just a coach to help support people through the consultant hat or the, you know, coaching hat and just giving them the advice to help them support them in that moment, or allowing them to get to their best version of themselves.

So just really grateful for each of those steps that have led me here. And then super grateful to be a mom and to wake up every day to see the beautiful children that are in my life personally. That are also the children that I get to serve in my professional life that I treat as my babies, because when you are so into my positionality or whatever, we get to lead, I never take that for granted ever. And I, I know that I can be replaced at any moment. So I need to always do like the best, whatever that is, and to go extra miles because our kids deserve it. So I think leading life and waking up every day just full of gratitude for these moments because they do move so quickly and this moment that we have right now, Lainie is irreplaceable.

And it's a moment in time that we never get back. But if I bring my full self to this moment with you we can't go wrong. So leading a life of genuine gratitude and gratefulness for the opportunities that we get to. Yeah.

Lainie Rowell: I love everything you said, and I'm just soaking it in. That idea of never taking the simplest things for granted. That's just how you live your life. And I see that in everything you do.

We're connected on social media, and by the way, you mentioned earlier the positives you put out there, they make my day, they make me happy. So keep doing that. I appreciate all the positivity that you put out there, and I just see you doing that in every facet that, that I get to see. And, I know that it happens in a lot of other facets too, so I'm just thrilled that we get to talk a little bit more about this because I wanna know, and you can take this whatever direction you want, personal, professional, both. It's up to you, but you know, how does this manifest in your life?

What does this look like? And you, and you gave us some great examples, but I just wonder if there's anything else that kind of keeps you moving forward, not taking those things for granted.

Zandra Jo Galvan: Yeah. So how did I kind of arrive at this person I am today? My birthday is next weekend and I'll be 52. And it's interesting to you know, share that I'm a seventies baby like you are.

Yeah. And to think about how we transform in our lives and how we become who we are today. So I'm a different person today than I was when I was in my twenties and when I was in my thirties and my forties. And it's so funny, like I was on a superintendent panel at a conference last week and they asked the question about like, how do you become who you are and when you enter spaces, like what's your mindset? And it's so funny to say some of the things that go through my mind, like in my twenties and my thirties, I was, I was always been a confident girl and, and I'll tell you why. You know, I'm the baby of six. So five brothers and sisters raised me and made this.

So if, if people don't like this energy that comes into a room, blame them because they absolutely gave me so much attention and joy and I'm nine years later. So imagine that. Like they were all born together and then nine years later, here comes the baby, right? And so babies are a little extra. I think research can be done about babies and how much extra they bring into a room. Like you can spot a baby in a, in a crowd. I think of a family just because we do have this extra kind of persona. So I think on that panel, when they asked me about that, I said, you know what I'm gonna go back to as I evolved and who I am today, I've always been a confident girl because I was the baby and because I got, you know, a lot of attention from my brothers and sisters and like making sure that, you know, when Zani, they call me, Zani gets out there in the world, we don't want her to get stepped on. We don't want her to not know that she has a presence and that she has this bright light that we don't want anyone to dim. Like they raised me that way to have that confidence. So the funny thing I shared with this panel and I said, you know what, when I was younger, my younger version myself, I used to walk into a room and wonder if people were gonna like me.

You know, like, were they gonna like me? Am I gonna fit in? Like, what if I don't, do I need to leave? Like, you know, what do I do? And now that I've arrived and I'm in my fifties, it's like, guess what? I'm gonna walk into a room and I'm gonna let you know if I like you. You know? So it's completely. That flipped the switch because as we evolve and we wanna give gratitude and be just grateful, I really don't have the personal time to spend with people who suck the life out of me. Mm-hmm. like I really don't. Yeah. And so as we go through life and you know, some of your listeners are gonna think like, man, I'm in this bad relationship, or I'm in this bad job, and it's like sucking the life. Well, don't stay. Life is way too short for you to live in a space that doesn't give you gratitude.

Like you need to be the best version of yourself every day of your life. And if you can't, and if you're not, then you need to really evaluate who you are, where you are, and what you give. So for me, I mean, that's a simple anecdote, but that's how I live my life today. If I'm in a space or in. You know, a tribe or a, a part of a, of a belonging group that doesn't serve who I am and I don't get to serve them, then the hard truth and the hard fact of the matter is you gotta remove yourself.

And so that's how I kind of have evolved and become this person, my family. Absolutely. But just learning through life and knowing that it's okay to say, you know, I can't be here, or to say, okay, I'm gonna be there. That just makes a world of difference.

Lainie Rowell: I had this little mind movie playing in my head where it's like young Zandra in her twenties going into a party and being like, are they gonna like me?

And then Uhhuh you now walking in and being like, if they don't like me, I'm in the wrong party and just like leaving.

Zandra Jo Galvan: Yeah. Or walk into the room and say, I am the party.

Lainie Rowell: Exactly.

Zandra Jo Galvan: Like, let's go . I'll take you guys to another stage.

Lainie Rowell: Exactly. Everybody come with me. You should be with me. I'm gonna go.

Yeah, that's, that's so true. That's so true.

Yeah.

You know, I hear you expressing gratitude for how you have evolved into being confident and like you said, you'd always been confident, but just something to growing into, and I just, I've seen this over my life too, things where I would worry a lot about what other people thought, and I still probably worry a little too much, but now I'm much more focused on, maybe I'm not supposed to be around these people right now, or maybe this isn't the space for me.

And just thinking, okay, well let's, let's reevaluate. And so I think that's really good advice.

Zandra Jo Galvan: Absolutely.

Lainie Rowell: Both personally and professionally.

Zandra Jo Galvan: Yeah, and I mean, and, and sometimes also though that may be the right space, but leveling with people and clear as kind. Right. Brene Brown says clear as kind, like just really being honest with people about how they might make you feel or how you might make them feel like? I want people to be honest with me. I wanna be honest with them. And perhaps it's a tweak. It's not a leave.

Lainie Rowell: Yeah.

Zandra Jo Galvan: Or a complete change, but just being able to communicate like this is how it's making me feel. And in order for me to be in my best version of myself and for you to be in your best passion driven life, we need to kind of share with each other in communicating what that is and perhaps that conversation.

and again, you know, through all the books we read, while no single conversation can, you know, change everything, it surely can change the trajectory of person's life that we know from, you know, the fabulous books we read. Yeah. Susan Scott .

Lainie Rowell: Yeah. I'm so glad you mentioned that cuz that is an important thing and I don't want anyone to think I'm suggesting just bail when it gets tough. But I think...

Zandra Jo Galvan: Exactly.

Lainie Rowell: You said something that was really... and I might have even heard this from Brene Brown too, but this idea of boundaries, and it's saying here's what is okay and here's what isn't. Okay. And sometimes you have to give both sides of it because sometimes it's not enough to just say, this is okay.

You also have to say, and that's not okay. And so sometimes being really explicit with people can help.

Zandra Jo Galvan: Absolutely. And in her work too. And I think also like in fierce conversations, as leaders, we sometimes have to have difficult conversations with people, and not because we like to do 'em, but because we must do them otherwise silence is permission to continue that behavior. And so I need to level with people and not in a way that's going to strip them of their human dignity. Never, ever, ever am I mean, in any sense of the way. I always will lead with heart and kind of just leveling with people. But understanding too that it is so powerful that it's gonna enrich the relationship when we do have conversation with people and we walk through life and there's so many people that come and go and stay and leave and all those kinds of things.

And so being able to level with another person in an honest conversation just allows you to not carry that heavy weight. Living the life of gratitude is also being happy in where you are. And we know that sometimes things make us sad and things will come in to enter our mind that compromises who we are.

And I'll share, you know, being vulnerable in a space with you and your listeners. Like there are many times when I let imposter syndrome take over my head and people might wonder like, what? You're always positive, you're always posting these wonderful things. You uplift women. How could you? No, I'm here to tell you that in my vulnerable me, I will do that.

And I have people that I can turn to to say, you know, I don't know if I'm being the best version of myself. I don't know if I have what it takes to do this, but within those circles, and I have many sister circles that just uplift me so often will say Zandra snap out of it. Like, let me fix your crown.

Here it is. You just lost it. You dropped it on the floor. So sorry. You were out of your body for a little bit. Welcome back. Here's your crown. You have everything that it has to take. And so often we do that for others, but forget that we need it too. So I'm super grateful to have people in my life that do that for me because there's no one above doubting ourselves.

We do doubt ourselves, but it's just the matter of don't doubt yourself for too long. It's good to doubt yourself. That just makes you human and make sure that you wanna do a better job. You know, whatever that is, you , just really make people proud and, you know, impact the most. But absolutely, we get knocked down, but it's in the rise when you are down that you become better and stronger in living your life.

Lainie Rowell: As you're talking, I'm thinking about how someone who rises to the level of influence and ability to make a difference that you are as superintendent. It's not because you wanna have those difficult conversations or because you think you have all the answers. It's because you care. It's your passion, and you're willing to keep going in spite of those challenges.

Is that fair to say?

Zandra Jo Galvan: That is absolutely fair to say. Challenges are gonna happen. It's just a guarantee change is gonna happen. That's a guarantee, right? We are gonna be faced with both positive and things that might challenge us. Any day of the week, any hour . It's, it's how we respond to them.

That makes the complete difference. Am I gonna allow this challenge to break me or am I gonna give it a wink and say, okay, I see you challenged. Let me see how this is something that I'm supposed to learn from it. And my younger version would've said, oh my God, why is this happening to me? Why me?

Right. , my more mature evolved version is gonna say, wow, this is happening to me. What am I supposed to learn from it? How am I gonna take this and be a stronger version of myself and use this experience to not only help and heal myself but heal and help others by advice and those kinds of things.

And I think that's why so often I'm tapped on the shoulder to be a mentor or a thought partner is because wisdom comes at all different ages, but it's, as you learn things, you become a better person and that I'm incredibly grateful for. That I've allowed to experience so many things. Whether I got knocked down or I stayed above, or I got, you know celebrated each of those shape who we are.

Lainie Rowell: I hear such a grateful disposition, in how you present yourself, everything you're sharing. And as I'm processing what you're saying, I'm thinking, I know, as a superintendent, you have real challenges. That just comes with that job. But the fact that you're able to take those moments, like when you're in the preschool and the little girls admiring your high heel shoes and you're like, oh, do you wanna try 'em on?

So for you to have this grateful disposition it's what gives you resilience. It's a coping mechanism in a way because it helps you to shift out of... and I have not been a superintendent, but I've been working closely enough with superintendents for long enough to know it's tough.

Zandra Jo Galvan: Yeah.

Lainie Rowell: There's some real tough moments.

Zandra Jo Galvan: Yeah.

Lainie Rowell: So to be able to find those, those bright spots, to be able to lean into those just moments of awe and wonder through the eyes of our kids, that's really special.

Zandra Jo Galvan: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And I think that's the difference. You're absolutely, you hit it right on the head is in those moments when we do look at the circumstance and feel that we're gonna kind of wallow in that pity and sadness of like, oh my God, like what am I gonna do? I don't know what to do.

Reminding ourselves that everything is temporary, right? Reminding that this is a situation that is happening in this moment. Guess what? We are gonna overcome it. We're gonna figure out how to respond to it. And oftentimes, You know, just living in gratitude and knowing that it is gonna get better and having that outlook on life.

Then you start analyzing situations differently. Like, should there be a parent that comes into my space that is not happy about something I reflect and say, okay, you're a mom, you're a dad. You're living your life through your lens. You just love your kid. You love your kid so much that you feel it inclined to come and share this through your perspective.

It's not about me. It's not about the board, it's not about the school particularly that they're angry at. It's more about a circumstance that through their lens, through their experience in life has caused them to feel that way. As soon as you put yourself in that disposition, then you're able to analyze things differently, and you don't take it personal.

You just say that's the virtue of this job. A building principal, a director of Parent/ Family Engagement, a superintendent. We're in these positions because we've endured certain things. We have a type of personality that can deal with different things that come our way. And when we do not look at it from a lens of they're attacking me, no, no, no. They're attacking the situation. This situation is something that they're not happy with. Can it be improved. Probably, probably. But I'm open to the perspective and I'm not afraid to invite people that come to a meeting to have a conversation again with me later. You know, once they've gone through. And I, I'm a firm believer in the chain of command.

We wanna make sure that we don't strip a teacher of their rights or, you know, principal of the opportunity to kind of reconcile and resolve it at the lowest level. But if it does come to my desk, then I'm okay with saying, help me understand. Help me understand what you've done. Cuz chances are I've endured something similar in my life that we're gonna connect on.

And almost always, a parent or a team member walks out of the office, really grateful for the conversation. And again, living life through a lens of, how do I help support you in this moment because it is something that is causing you to pause?

Lainie Rowell: I think that empathy that you're showing and that priority of making the connection and trying to understand first, because it's really hard when you've got someone coming in hot your instincts are to get into a fight or flight mode.

And so...

Zandra Jo Galvan: Yes.

Lainie Rowell: You know, taking that deep breath and reminding yourself, this child is their whole world. This isn't about me.

Zandra Jo Galvan: Yeah.

Lainie Rowell: I need to try and understand the situation and hopefully help the situation from everyone's perspective. So I think that's really good advice. I have a tendency of taking everything personal and I have to remind myself I am actually not the center of the world.

And it's not like that. I think I'm so special. It's just that that's kind of a human thing, right? As we tend to our initial responses, it's all about us. Like they're not happy. It has to be me.

Zandra Jo Galvan: Lainie, that's such a good point because we actually absolutely, we are wired to take things personally. We're human. We are wired for human connection, and if someone doesn't like us, that's compromising that wire.

And it's causing us to think like, wait a minute. Like how could you not like me? I'm really nice. Right? And so like I would never hurt anyone. So when somebody does compromise that human connection wire and it causes some triggers in our brain to say, whoa, this is not my, you know, everyday way of life.

We're usually going through when, when things are very connected. And so it does kind of shift us to have us pause and to really reflect on, you know, what's going on in this circumstance. And I'm wanted to say, I mean, I have very, very few people that I don't get along with, like very few. And if I don't get along with the person, it's usually because we don't match on that gratitude lens.

You know, they have a different outlook on life. Yeah. And, but again, I don't not like you. I don't wish hate on you ever. I just know that you've got different set of experiences that have caused you to feel that way. Yeah. It doesn't make you, you know, anything different. I'm not gonna wish harm on you, it's just we don't match. Yeah.

You know, and that kind of thing as we go through life, but, but you're absolutely right with that human connection and that desire to take things personally, always exist. My initial response is to take things personally, but in my skillset of kind of rewiring my brain, Is, okay, hold up, Zandra, remove yourself from the situation.

It's not about you. It's about this thing. Then it allows you to logically think about that thing and not be emotionally triggered to respond. And that's something that I've had to learn over life.

Lainie Rowell: Yeah, it's, it's a skill for sure. And the way you reframe it too, it's not about me. What is it about for them?

I think that's really a powerful pivot. I mean, that's, that's a game changer for sure. Oh my goodness. Okay. I know you're very busy and I'm gonna have to let you go here, but I would love it if you have a chance to give a shout out and then I'll ask you to share how can people connect with you so they can see all the bright, wonderful things that I see.

Zandra Jo Galvan: Yes, absolutely. So I am on all the social media channels so on Twitter, you can find me at @ZJGalvan on Instagram, it's @ZanGalvan. Zj Galvan was taken. And then I'm on LinkedIn and on Facebook just with my Zandra Jo Galvan. My home base is Greenfield, California here with my school district, but always if someone was to message me or, you know, wanna reach out absolutely, you know, it, it takes me a, a little bit, but I will reach it back out to you and, you know, hope to support other people in the, in the wonderful work that we get to do.

Lainie Rowell: Yeah. I love that. Alright, we're gonna send, send out with a shout out. Do you have anyone you wanna give a little nod to?

Zandra Jo Galvan: Yes. Oh my God. Shout out to all the working moms out there who are living the dream, doing it simultaneously because as a leading female, it's not easy. So I just wanna give a shout out to all the moms out there that are working as professionals.

Also wanna shout out to just some really special people that I adore. And those are my sister circles. I've got some really great people, so I'm gonna shout out to. My core sister circle. That was my original, and I'm gonna shout out to Jessica Gomez, who I just love. Veronica Godinez, Pam Gildersleeve-Hernandez to Lynn Colan and to Rosa Perez-Isiah, I just adore those women to my core.

I wanna shout out to my USC sisters who we are fighting this doctoral journey together. Scheduled and no denying it. We are gonna graduate on May of 2024. Shout out to my sisters Margarita Contreras, Lori Gonzalez and Sabrina Silverman. Wanna give a shout out to so many sister superintendents and brother superintendents across this great nation that I get to meet through ASA through IEI through RTM, through DA.

Through Future Ready Schools. I mean, I'm just super fortunate to be able to be part of, and again, going back to get, to be part of these because someone somewhere sees something in me that is gonna add value to their organization. So I'm just really grateful for that. And then finally, I'm gonna give a shout out to this district right here.

My family, of course. My family, my amazing family. My, the, the man who lets me do this, my husband, my beautiful children, always gonna shout them out. And my parents, you know, absolutely. My family, but the last shout out is to this school district right here who I have the just gratefulness to be able to serve as superintendent.

I'm so grateful to the children that I get to hopefully impact to the board of trustees that allows me to live this dream and to every single one of the team members on this GSD family that allows me to be me. And that in turn allows them to be who they are in living this purpose-driven life that is full of gratitude.

Those are my shoutouts.

Lainie Rowell: That was lovely. I love the sister circle. I love all the shoutouts that you gave, and it's a real joy in the way that we connect on the socials with other educators. To me, that's, profound and I wish everyone had it cuz I know that there are some who don't have that experience and I don't blame them for being a little hesitant, but I.

It's really, really nice on there. I mean, we're, we're all taking care of each other and lifting each other up and stretching each other's thinking. And so if you're not already on the socials, there's a lot of great people who have brilliant ideas and a lot of wonderful things to share and help. So, Join us.

Zandra Jo Galvan: Oh my gosh, yes. Don't be afraid. Yeah, for sure. Don't be afraid to take that first move because you do. We find, I mean, that's how we found each other, to be honest. Yeah. Like me knowing about your wonderful things that you get to do is because of that. So I would agree with you. Don't be afraid to just take that first move to say hi to someone, message somebody, or join one of these circles that we're talking.

Lainie Rowell: Thank you Zandra for being here and thank you all for listening.

Zandra Jo Galvan: All right. Thank you so much for having me.

Episode 46 - Stand Tall, "I Got You" with Guest Steve Bollar

Shownotes:

Are you ready to be inspired and edutained by Stand Tall Steve!?! "Edutained", did I just make up a new word??? Update: I Googled it, no, I didn't, but I'm loving it! Press play now and listen as Steve Bollar defines the difference between compliance and commitment. Plus he explains how gratitude is the fuel for motivation!

About Our Guest:

Steve Bollar, a.k.a. Stand Tall Steve, is an educational thought leader, former Superintendent of Schools, principal, author and a school culture and motivation expert.  He is known for his quick wit, creative thought, and humorous personality.   Steve is the author of the books Stand Tall Leadership, Ideas, Ideas, Ideas! and is a contributing author in Because of a Teacher. Steve openly shares his knowledge, experiences and creativity with others. He currently speaks to students, staff and communities throughout the world about how to think differently about schools, education, and life.

Website: standtallsteve.com

Twitter: @StandTallSteve Instagram: @standtallsteve

About Lainie:

Lainie Rowell is an educator, international consultant, podcaster, and TEDx speaker. She is the lead author of Evolving Learner and a contributing author of Because of a Teacher. Her latest book, Evolving with Gratitude, was just released. An experienced teacher and district leader, her expertise includes learner-driven design, community building, online/blended learning, and professional learning. Learn more at linktr.ee/lainierowell.

Twitter - @LainieRowell 

Instagram - @LainieRowell

Evolving with Gratitude, the book, is now available! Purchase here! 

You can also get bulk orders for your staff (10 copies or more) at a discounted price! Just fill out the form linked below and someone will get back to you ASAP! bit.ly/ewgbulkdiscount

Transcript:

Lainie Rowell: [00:00:00] Hello. Hello, my friends. I have Steve Bollar, also known as Stand Tall Steve. He is an educational thought leader, former superintendent of schools, principal, author. I mean, the list is long and impressive. He's a very motivational speaker, and I know that I get a lot of inspiration whenever I get the opportunity to hear from him.

So that was like the intro that I jumped into before I even got a chance to say, hi, Steve .

Steve Bollar: Hello. Hello. It is so good to be here. I'm glad to finally connect with you. We've known of each other and we've followed each other and stuff like that. But now here we are, we're we're together. This is good.

I love it.

Lainie Rowell: I love it too. And we're actually in a book together.

Steve Bollar: Yes.

Lainie Rowell: Shout out to George Couros. We're in Because of a Teacher together, the original one.

Steve Bollar: The original one, the first

Lainie Rowell: We were not trying to throw shade on anything. Just saying we were, we were the first, but no, I'm just kidding.

Steve Bollar: We we're the OGs.

Lainie Rowell: Exactly.

Exactly. Well, and you're an a very prolific writer, author, podcaster. I am not doing your bio justice, but I'd love for you to tell us the names of your books and the projects you're working on. Just tell us a little bit about yourself. What do people need to know about Stand Tall Steve.

Steve Bollar: Okay, wonderful.

Well, well first off I know everybody's kind of wondering what's the deal with Stand Tall Steve? Why not just use your regular name? My regular name is Steve. It is Steve Bollar, but if you've see me, you can't see me here, but I'm a tall guy. I'm six seven. All right. I don't blend in. I stand out. You notice me.

No, I'm not a basketball. Yes, I can play. I won't do it for you. Yes, I can dunk the ball. No, I won't do it for you. Yes, I played in high school. No, I did not play in college. Yes, I enjoyed the sport. No, I did not know any professional basketball players. I get asked that everywhere I go, but , so it's, it is a physical thing.

Yes. But overall it has a lot to do with standing tall, staying focused, and doing your very best. I am an educator by, by trade. I started my career off as an art teacher. I taught art pre-k to third grade art. Actually. Little tiny people. Yes. They barely came up to my knee or my hip. I did step on a few of them, but we settled outta court.

They're fine. , they're fine. Don't worry. Whatever they said, they are fine. I didn't see 'em down there.

Lainie Rowell: They're fine. No long term damage.

Steve Bollar: Yeah, no one turned me in, but I started off as a visual arts teacher and did that for many years. Assistant Principal. The bulk of my career was as a building principal at the elementary level and upper elementary level.

I became assistant superintendent, superintendent. So, you know, I, I did my tour of duty within education. All while I was an administrator, specifically, I really got into the art of public speaking. I enjoy speaking in front of people. It never bothered me. My father's a minister. I was put in front of people all the time.

My brother has, has a degree in theater from Visual and Performing Arts School in Philly, like we are in front of people. So I really got into speaking and training and one of the things that was most important to me was the climate and culture within my school and how leaders make decisions and how they move through life and do things.

So that's what I spoke on. And so for the last five years, that's what I do. I speak full-time speaking, training, consulting on culture and climate. Leadership development, idea development. That is it. Can I do curriculum? Yes. I don't want to . Can I do data analysis? Yes. I don't want to, can I do instructional strategies?

Yes. I don't want to. I do climate culture, leadership development, idea development, and as you said, yes, I have some books. Stand Tall Leadership. It's all about leadership. How to be that stand tall leader to be your very best. My other book is Ideas, ideas, ideas. A collection of ideas to improve the climate and culture of your school.

I have another ideas book, which talks about academic pep rallies and how they have those happen, as well as the one that you and I are in together, the original because of a teacher. So there you go. That is Steve Bollar, Stand Tall Steve.

Lainie Rowell: That is amazing. You are putting so much goodness out into the world, and I really do just get so amped when I listen to you talk and I've heard you on other podcasts and I just think it's a joy to listen to you.

You really, like I said, I don't know how else to say it. You get me on fire, you get me excited, and that's what we need in our schools, right?

Steve Bollar: It is what we need in our school. You know, one of the things that I've never held back is being my authentic self. I am not ADHD. I've had people say, oh, you and your ADD.

No, I'm not. I've never been diagnosed. I'm not ADD I can control myself. It's just that I have a deep passion and a love for education and helping other people. And yes, I want it badly and it means a lot to hear from you and from others that, that is transferring, whether it's through, through the voice, through my actions, through my videos, through my other people and it get other people going to do their very best as well. So thank you. I really, really appreciate that.

Lainie Rowell: Yeah. Well thank you for not holding it back because I know we sometimes get this feedback like, oh, it might be a little much. No, bring it. Bring it. We need it all.

Steve Bollar: That's it. That's it.

Lainie Rowell: Well, my friend, I would love to hear as someone who is so focused on culture and climate and obviously through a leadership lens, but I just wanna hear from you.

My friend Steve, I'm gonna call you my friend now, because now we've actually done something synchronously. We've been connected for a while, but now that we're actually talking live, I get to

Steve Bollar: Yes, my friend. Yes.

Lainie Rowell: I would love to hear what does gratitude mean to you?

Steve Bollar: Gratitude means to me, it's being grounded.

A lot of times when you do good things, all right? You do good things. You do even great things. You do amazing things. All right. In my life, I've done some good things. Everybody's done some good things. Even if you feel like you haven't, you, you help someone up, whatever, you're doing great things and gratitude helps with the grounding of those great things.

It's very easy to get caught up into your head. You know, it's, it's very easy sometimes to say, you know, I don't know. I did. Sure enough, you know, look at the results that I got. Or you do something, you mess it up, all right? You mess it up, but every time you mess up, it's a learning opportunity. Right?

Absolutely. Finding opportunities and being grateful and having gratitude for those who are with you, those who even received what it is that you've done. Having that time to reflect on those things, and that's the big piece of it. Reflection. You gotta reflect on gratitude. You have to take the time to think through gratitude.

Hey, thank you. Wow. Look what happened. Look at the work that I put in. Look at the things that I was able to do to help other people. These are the people that helped me to be able to do that. I think that is a huge, huge piece of gratitude. For those who have gratitude journals, which is I think is widely important.

Something that. I have started to do a good friend of mine, Kim Strobel. I love Kim. Kim is, ah, that's my girl. Really has turned me on to, you know, gratitude journals and taking the time to think back through, you know, thanking people and what are you happy about?

And it's not just people, it's events and opportunities, things that you have in life to take the moment to kind of reflect on those and to write those down. And, and it, and it does, it keeps me humble. It keeps me focused, and it turns that into motivation. You know, I believe gratitude is the fuel for motivation.

It allows you to keep going. People have said to me, I'm a motivational speaker and things like, I can't motivate you. I can inspire you, I can influence you, but motivation comes from within. You have to be motivated to do it. Ask my teenage daughter. Ask my teenage son . You can ask them to do anything.

You know, like they don't feel like doing it. They're not motivated, you know, take out the trash. How many thoughts I gotta tell you, you know? But when you have gratitude for whatever that might be, you take the time to reflect on that gratitude. You feel good. It's a good feeling, it's an understanding, it's a humbleness.

It can help fuel the motivation to move forward into whatever it is that you need to do and make. So there's my long, outlandish focus of it, but that, that's what I think. That's where I'm coming from.

Lainie Rowell: I really appreciate that and this is the tough part. You're a podcaster, so you know this, right?

This is the tough part, is like I'm in this moment with you. I'm also like, just trying to reflect on what you said and I'll listen to this several times and get to have more opportunities to reflect on it. But I thought that was really powerful. When you said gratitude is the fuel for motivation.

And this idea that we're using gratitude to reflect and keep us, I heard you say grounded kind of thinking, centered, when it's really, really good, keep you grounded and centered. When it's really, really bad, keep you grounded and centered either way.

Steve Bollar: Yeah. Yeah.

Lainie Rowell: And so I think that's really important.

So I hear you talking about, you know, the gratitude as reflecting in it. You know, I like to think about being present in it, but also the way you're talking about how it's gonna move you forward.

Steve Bollar: Mm-hmm.

Lainie Rowell: That's really powerful.

Steve Bollar: Thank you. Yeah, and it does. It can move you forward. Here's the thing. Nobody wants to be stagnant forever.

All right? Even if you're cozy with your big warm blanket in the window seat, nice warm, it's raining outside. Good book. You're cozy into whatever your situation might be. At a certain point, you wanna move, you wanna keep going, and sometimes people have a lot of issues. They got depression, they have other things that are going on.

If you need that little bit of fuel, you need that little bit of, you know what, Hey, I could keep it going. Think of what it is that you're thankful for. Think of those that you're thankful for who have been in your life. Think of the things that are great, and if that doesn't begin to give you a little fuel will begin to give you a little bit of, huh.

I want a little bit of more of that. I want a little bit of excitement of that. I wanna, I wanna feel that a little bit more. We are emotional creatures to me that is a little bit of that fuel to motivate you, to keep going to do more. If you're grateful for people, certain people, let's put names to it, all right?

You have gratitude for certain people that you can specifically name. You don't wanna disappoint them. Whether there are people that have been in your past, people that you're constantly currently in your present, you know, maybe they're ancestors that are gone, you don't wanna deny their name, you don't wanna make their spirit see you in a negative light.

So again, is that motivation to keep going, to continue to make them happy, to continue to forward their name, their memory? I would say yes. So that's why I say, you know, gratitude is the fuel for motivation. That's, that's where that is. That's where that's coming.

Lainie Rowell: I'm like ready to run a marathon now. You've like got me all... You got me...

Steve Bollar: I know, right?

Lainie Rowell: You got me amped. Let's do this. Okay. I love asking that question cuz there's no right or wrong answer and to me it's also contextual. So I could probably ask you tomorrow and you might have a slightly different spin on it, right?

Steve Bollar: I could, yes.

Well, quite so, yeah, I mean, you know, again, I think about, you know, your podcast and you're talking about gratitude and that resonates with me. And I was thinking through those things and there's a lot of other different pieces. I could go to it, you're right, you could ask me tomorrow. And I, I would still say that I think it's the fuel, but you know, there's a, there's another angle that might go with it.

And, you know, I might wake up tomorrow, I had a bad night of sleep. Things aren't going well. You got me on a good spot right here, and you know, it is like, yeah, gratitude. You know, I wish I had something more. You might feel a little bit a different way. Yeah. Everybody has their own little take with it.

You're right. There's no wrong answer for it. Everybody has their own definition and what they think of it and how they feel about that.

Lainie Rowell: Yeah, and the way that we experience and express it. You mentioned the journaling, which I often say, journaling is great. It's not for everyone.

There are other practices, but it's, you know, very easy for journaling as far as the gold standard of research. That's a pretty easy one to track. So it's very often cited as evidence that gratitude is a powerful practice and also putting it into language and there's so much to it. So the journaling is a really good practice.

If it's not for you, there's other stuff, but I'd love to hear about what else is going on in your life where you're experiencing or expressing gratitude?

Steve Bollar: It, it's interesting just today, it, it, speaking of today versus tomorrow or another day earlier this morning I had a meeting with my assistant Jessica.

And we meet often obviously, you know, to go over the business and what I'm doing and things like that. And something is manifesting right now with me. You know, before we clicked into our podcast, I was mentioning a little bit to you, I've had within the last week, multiple people coming to me talking about teacher retention. Mm-hmm. Talking about keeping teachers in the profession, not just keeping 'em in your school, keeping them in the profession. Bringing in quality candidates. Schools are having issue with it, and more and more I'm hearing about this, I've had multiple people ask me, do I speak on this?

Can I talk about this? And, we're talking about gratitude and, you know, and I think that kind of, there's something with that, you know? Yeah. Having that level of gratitude and that love for the profession, for wanting people that are in your schools, that are the right kind of person to come into your schools, to keep the ones that you.

And here's the other side of it. If you do need to let someone go, letting 'em go with respect. Mm-hmm. You know, cuz here's the other thing. You know, you let somebody go from your school, all right? They didn't get tenure, they resigned, whatever it might be. They're still, they're still friends with other educators, right?

They're gonna leave and they're gonna talk about your school, they're gonna talk about your district, right? Do you want them saying as many negative things as possible about your school and your district or do you want other people to come? So letting people leave with respect, you know, being thankful and having gratitude for what they did bring to your school.

So those are the things that are kind of resonating with me right now, and I'm getting a lot more people talking about this. They're asking more for it. I'm developing a keynote on it. I'm actually gonna be writing a book about it so that's a serendipitous or whatever that you and I are talking now about, you know, gratitude and things.

Cause this is what's on the front of my mind. And that's a big piece of this that I think that is a, a major part of, of keeping teachers in the profession and allowing them to stay here and administrators thinking about ways to connect with them better so that they want to stay in the profession.

Lainie Rowell: Yeah. I like how you're connecting the gratitude and the respect. I haven't really thought about those two so closely together, but that makes a lot of sense as you're saying it, because even if, you know, you gave a very specific example of it's not a fit and this person is going to not be on your campus anymore,

Steve Bollar: Mm-hmm. Right. Right.

Lainie Rowell: You can still be grateful that they served when they did.

Steve Bollar: Yes.

Lainie Rowell: Be grateful that, you know, this is the time we had together and with respect, I send you off and I hope you find a better fit. We do these things cuz they're the right things and cuz we care about people.

Mm-hmm. . And then I like how you're also pointing out, there's also a bit of a PR thing to consider here too.

Steve Bollar: Very much so

Lainie Rowell: I know that as educators we're very altruistic and we care about people and that's our primary motivator, but, , if nothing else. We have to also be aware of the reality that if we are not taking care of people in whatever interactions we're having, they're gonna wanna leave.

Steve Bollar: They're gonna wanna go

Lainie Rowell: And take people with them potentially

Steve Bollar: And take people with them. Not only are they taking people with them that might be already in your organization, they may be taking people that are yet to be in your organization.

You don't know who they know. Just because they're a hot mess and they need to leave doesn't mean that their friends are all hot messes and they need to leave and never come to you. All right. So you, you, that, that all has to be a part of the bigger picture and Yes, there's a big PR piece about this as well, right?

We wanna put our schools in a good light. We want our schools to be spoken about well. We want people to know that teachers are happy to be in our building. Mm-hmm. All right. Not just students and parents and community to be happy with it. We want our staff to be happy to be in the building. Now, I'm not saying we're gonna kiss people's bottoms and gonna forward, we got work to do.

But that is something to keep in mind and to. Gratitude is a big piece of that, right?

Lainie Rowell: Yeah.

Steve Bollar: One thing I do is I work a lot with administrators, or I do with teachers, but I do a lot of work with administrators, obviously with the Stand Tall Leadership and everything like that, and I think administrators get caught up in administrivia, If I may.

All right. You hear my tone here. Administrator, you know, they get all caught up in administrivia and I think administrivia gets in the way of humanity. And then sometimes you have it too far the other way. You know, you have administrator. I wanna coach you. I wanna, yes. Let me, let me feel you. We have to find the good balance here, right?

Where you understand the importance of administrivia and you also understand the importance of people's feelings and understandings, right?

Lainie Rowell: Yeah.

Steve Bollar: And the way that you can balance some of that or any, all of that is having a bigger understanding of where people are having a good vision. Having good values and making sure you're making those decisions based off those vision and values and a big piece of that vision and values.

Let's go back to what we're talking about here, is gratitude. Showing gratitude for the work and the effort that people are putting in to what they're doing. The number one reason why people leave a job isn't money. It's not, you can Google that, y'all, right? . It's recognition and respect for what it is that they do.

Lainie Rowell: Oh, there's so much there. I really think one of the many things you're very good at, and you even talked about this in a different light, but on your podcast there was an episode about administrators have gone soft.

Steve Bollar: Oh yes. I just did that.

Lainie Rowell: I know. I don't wanna take it outta context. So people are gonna be like, what is that? Maybe that's the teaser that they need to go listen to it. But one of the things you're very good at is articulating the nuance between, you know, we have to have this humanity.

We still have work to do, but we have to have this recognition and respect. And I think that's a. It's a tough needle to thread at times, but it's very possible. It's doable. We can do it and it's really about being thoughtful and intentional with it. And I love that you articulate that so well to get us thinking about it.

And it's like, it's not one or the other.

Steve Bollar: Yeah. It's not And that, that's the polarization and going to what you were talking about, administrators are going soft. Yeah. It is talking about the extreme of one or the other. You know, administrators we have gotten into and, and we should, the coaching administrator, let, let me coach you through, let me explain how this really is, and you know, I want you to, intrinsically teachers really go with the, sometimes you're being too soft.

Sometimes, be an administrator. This is what you need to do. But you're not going to the extreme on the other end. And so that's why when you talk about those nuances, it's that stuff in the middle and being able to understand the two sides of the middle. And it doesn't mean you have to be polarized.

It is 100% possible. And y'all love the word that you said. Purposeful. Purposeful thinking, purposeful actions. And it's not hard. That's the other thing. Sometimes it gets too hard and so we just fall back on what we're most comfortable with, which you could be whatever you know, is not working for you. It is purposeful.

It is not that hard. And I try to, and I'm glad you noticed it. I tried to break it down for people like, no, it's. Not that bad. You can kind of do this. You can kind of do this. Right.

Lainie Rowell: Well, being a human is messy and working with other humans is messy too and I think of like, yes. You know, I think of like not only in our professional world, but you're a father.

I'm a mother. Yeah. And I think about this constantly through both the lens of an educator and as a parent. And there's of course an extra layer of personal when it's your kids, cuz they're an extension of you and you start to put some more stuff on that and that get you into some real trouble. Mm. But we always want the best for kids, whether they're our biological children or our students and for our staff as well.

And so when you were talking earlier and you're like, you know, if someone's like a hot mess right now, this might not be the place for them, but maybe it's just not the right place for them right now.

Steve Bollar: Right now.

Lainie Rowell: And maybe the best thing for them to do is to step away for a little while. And when we give them that grace and we say, Hey, we you know, this isn't for you right now. When you're ready. If it is, come back. And I know that we're not offering that up to everyone, but there are...

Steve Bollar: Yeah. Not everyone. Mm-hmm.

Lainie Rowell: Especially, in recent years there are some people who just, they need to take a break. Yeah. And we can allow them to do that without feeling guilty and just say, mm-hmm.

Hey, you know, if, if things change and you wanna come back, we'd love to talk to you about it. Mm-hmm. .

Steve Bollar: Yeah. And that, that's totally possible now for, you know, my HR people who are out there, you know, We've got a compliance and everything.

Lainie Rowell: Oh, yeah, yeah.

Steve Bollar: Maybe cringing 100% at all of this. But I think you're absolutely right.

Some things, you know, this is not your season. You know, you, you, this is not your season, this is not your time. There's growing that needs to take place. I was willing to help you with that growth. You're not ready to receive that help for growth, because that's the other thing. An administrators removing someone, they hopefully they have done their due diligence to provide the assistance necessary to allow them to grow to the point where they what they need to be.

And there's a little bit of administrivia in that, that they have to have timelines and da, da, da, da, duh. So you've gotten to a point where it's not working, you've done the timelines, you've done the administrivia, you've done the coaching. It is time for you to find somewhere else to go. And it's right.

They may not be ready right now. All right. They go off, they leave. I mean, hopefully it's a situation where you're not removing them from the world of education. You're not going after their license or something crazy like that. Yeah. And I don't wanna say crazy cuz sometimes it might be necessary.

People need to grow at their own speed. A lot of people now just think back to your friends and people maybe in your family or whatever like that, where there's been a big change in their life. Something's happened and you know they're fighting this change. Look what is happening to me. Oh my God, this is terrible.

It turned out to be a good thing. It turned out to be a good thing. While they're going through it, they don't know, but a lot of times. We are resilient. People are resilient . All right. It may turn out to be a good thing. So when you're looking back to our original topic where people may need to leave or a job or whatever like that, sometimes it might just be a good thing.

Lainie Rowell: And I love that you brought HR into this and it's so interesting to me because HR Human Resources is actually one of the most lovely job titles you could have, right. Is that you, you see humans as such a resource that you wanna take care of them, right?

Steve Bollar: Yes.

Lainie Rowell: Whether you're bringing them in, helping 'em when they're struggling, keeping 'em, whatever it is. I think that's part of where you're very good. You brought that up now because you do have to be careful about that compliance stuff, which is, is guardrails to make sure that you're doing things that don't ultimately hurt people.

Steve Bollar: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Lainie Rowell: Because we have to be super careful with these communications that we're not doing something that would cause unnecessary harm to anyone involved, to any of the parties involved. Right? So we have these, these guidelines, these guardrails if you will, and. we can with our humanity also, just be really careful that, you know, we're doing the things we need to do to make sure everything's in place, but we're humans and we wanna make sure we take care of the other humans.

Steve Bollar: Yes, definitely and that's what it is. We want to take care of them. One of the things I do talk about is I talk about the difference between being compliant and commitment. Cuz school's, what are we, we are compliant driven, we really are.

And, and there's nothing wrong with it. You have to have compliance. It is important. And, and I love what you say, your guardrails and that's what they are. They're keeping it together. But when you think of compliance, what do you think of? You think of words like rules, policy, have to, standards and those are all good things.

You got, you have to have them. . But ultimately, I think if you get to the mindset and you get people to the commitment level, what words do you think of there? Commitment, dedication, love, grace you know guidance, leadership, gratitude. Those are words that you think of when you hear the word commitment. And here's the thing. If you can get your people, those are involved, your educators, your people in the school or in your families whatever, if they get committed to what you respect and value to the school today, compliance will take care of itself. True compliance will take care of itself.

It will, you will have compliance because they're committed. They're committed. I'm all in. I'm all in. I'm there. My heart's there. Now, when we. Let's jump back to what we were talking about before, about keeping teachers in the profession, keeping people there. If you can get, as a school, as a whole, as a leader, or whatever it is, your teachers to the commitment level where they're committed to what you respect and value, they're committed to, not just the students, but they're committed to the profession, they're committed to the drive, they're committed to the the needs.

You're not gonna lose 'em. Mm-hmm. , you're not gonna. , you're not gonna lose 'em. Yes. Will they come back at you? Yes. They want fairness and things like that. They want all those kind of things, you know, but they're committed to it. This is a lifestyle. Yeah. And then compliance will take care of itself.

Gratitude is a big piece of that. Being committed. Yeah. You know, and all those pieces.

Lainie Rowell: That's a great connection. Again, I'm so appreciative of how thoughtful and intentional you are with your words. Talking about like, it doesn't mean they're never gonna push back on you. No, that's not what we're saying.

Steve Bollar: Not what we're saying.

Lainie Rowell: It's just that they know where we're going, what's important to us. So even when they push back on some things, they're overall, they're on the bus with you.

Steve Bollar: They're on the bus, that's right. Yes. I love that. You know, they're on the bus. You know, it's funny, when I was talking about the keeping teachers with us, I was talking to my publisher about topics for book titles, and one of the topics that we're thinking about is called Stay on the Bus. Yeah, you know, for, for keeping. It's what you say, it's to get on. They're on a bus with you. One of the titles that we're thinking about is Stay on the Bus. How do we keep teachers retaining in the, you know, with us a little bit funny?

And it's funny you should say that. That's really neat. ,

Lainie Rowell: We're on the same page, my friend.

Steve Bollar: Yes. Yes, we are. We're in sync. Right.

Lainie Rowell: I love that you have given us so many pearls of wisdom. I could take all of your time, but I, I wanna be respectful of you. I am very grateful for this time.

I do wanna give you an opportunity to give a shout out and then wanna make sure people know how to connect with you.

Steve Bollar: Yeah, definitely. Well, as, as far as my shout outs go you know, big shout out. I, I gotta say it's my family. Of course. You know, they're going through this journey with me like crazy.

But my assistant, Jessica, that's my girl, we've, been ride or die, you wanna talk about gratitude. When I was a superintendent. I was a part of a charter network. Most of my career has been with public school, and I stepped away, did a little charter work, I hired her as my secretary.

Never been a school secretary before. Right. I needed one. She never did it. I think she processed loans at a car dealership or whatever like that, and I, I remember it was the craziest interview ever. I said to her, I says, look, . I need somebody who's willing to learn and can get me. Hang with me.

Girl, can you do that? Like that was it? She looked at me right now and she says, I got you. I said, do you? Oh yes. She says, I, I'm with you. I could do it. Are you sure? Yeah. And I'm looking at her like, come on girl. She's like, yes. I said, okay, you got it. And we worked out salary, I mean, seriously, in the interview, whatever.

Lainie Rowell: That's amazing.

Steve Bollar: Yes. So when I left that position. She stayed there for a little bit longer, but then I started doing speaking training full-time. I called her up, I said, Jess, I need you. Could you? Yes, I got you. She said, I'll, I'll help you out. And now she has a full-time business doing virtual assistance for speakers all over the country.

I love Jessica. That's my girl. She is with me, ride or die. So huge gratitude to the support and help that she provides. I gotta put that out there.

Lainie Rowell: I'm so glad you... I actually had written her name down from earlier cause I was gonna put it in the show notes, but I had a feeling you might give her the, the shout out in addition to your family, obviously.

I love that. And these people, who are side by side, shoulder to shoulder with us doing this work they just make all the difference and that I love that. "I got you." This is one of those times where I don't want anyone to see my face cuz the makeup's not great today.

But I would love for people to see your face. Cause the way that you're putting that out there, I feel like I am there with you and Jessica and I'm seeing this partnership form where it's just this amazing, like we're gonna. Incredible things.

Steve Bollar: Yes. And that's what it is. We are. I told her, you and I we're, we're growing together and she has her own business.

It's called Lean On Me Live, Lean On Me Live virtual assistance, whatever like that. And Stand Tall Enterprises. Stand Tall Steve. Boom, we're rolling with it. So that's that. Great gratitude. I think the other part was how to get the, get ahold of me, how to please the see me please and all this things and that, that's stand tall.

Anything you put Stand Tall Steve in Google, you will see me pop up everywhere. I have StandTallSteve.com. That is my website. I have a podcast called Stand Tall Leadership. You can check that out as well. You get me on Twitter or Facebook, Instagram, I'm even TikTok. StandTallsteve. You put StandTallSteve, anywhere and I will pop up the book Stand Tall Leadership. Ideas, Ideas, Ideas, book. Go to my website. You got that. And I'm working on, I'm developing something called within our ranks and within our ranks is training for educators who want to speak professionally. And there's so many educators who are tired of boring, professional development.

Professional development should be relevant. It should be quality content and slightly entertaining and I try to help educators who want to do that, be able to do that. So that's me, that, that's, that's Stand Tall Steve. All the way from New Jersey coming at you. That's it.

Lainie Rowell: I love it. Okay, so this was, this was only a, a short podcast and an amuse-bouche of Stand Tall Steve, if you will.

And just that little taste should be enough for everyone to get on your website, follow you on the socials if they haven't already. Grab your books. All right my friend. I am gonna let you go now and I just wanna say thank you for your time and thank you all for listening.

Steve Bollar: Thank you. Had a great time.

Episode 45 - Being Brave, Smart, and Kind with Guest PJ Brady

Shownotes:

What the bubbles does gratitude have to do with being brave, smart, and kind? It turns out, quite a lot! American born, Belgian by marriage, and global by choice, PJ has so much wisdom to share as we discuss overcoming the things that scare us, the importance of critical thinking, and ways we can treat others and ourselves!

About Our Guest:

PJ Brady is the father of three daughters and a values-based leadership coach. He is a recently published author of Raising Kids to be Brave, Smart and Kind; sharing his stories of using his leadership content in his efforts to raise confident kids. He is American and lives in Belgium with his wife, kids and Bernese Mountain Dog. After working with leaders around the globe, PJ noticed that all values are about how we overcome challenges, critically think, and treat others and ourselves. Now the BSK Framework is being implemented in organizations, families and schools in multiple countries.

Website: bravesmartkind.com

Twitter: @BraveSmartKind   Instagram: @pjbrady_bravesmartkind

About Lainie:

Lainie Rowell is an educator, international consultant, podcaster, and TEDx speaker. She is the lead author of Evolving Learner and a contributing author of Because of a Teacher. Her latest book, Evolving with Gratitude, was just released. An experienced teacher and district leader, her expertise includes learner-driven design, community building, online/blended learning, and professional learning. Learn more at linktr.ee/lainierowell.

Twitter - @LainieRowell 

Instagram - @LainieRowell

Evolving with Gratitude, the book, is now available! Purchase here! 

You can also get bulk orders for your staff (10 copies or more) at a discounted price! Just fill out the form linked below and someone will get back to you ASAP! bit.ly/ewgbulkdiscount

Transcript:

Lainie Rowell: Good day friends, or good evening, whenever you're listening. I'm so excited to have PJ Brady on the show. How are you PJ?

PJ Brady: You know what I'm doing fantastic cuz all my kids are asleep. No one has cried for me yet at 10 o'clock at night here in Belgium. And that's for me, that's living the life.

Lainie Rowell: Yeah. I was gonna ask you, how many hours ahead are you?

PJ Brady: Six hours ahead of East Coast, so...

Lainie Rowell: Oh, then nine hours ahead of me. Cause I'm on the west coast

PJ Brady: Right.

Lainie Rowell: So I mean, what the bubbles friend, how are you? I have had that queued up and the listeners...

PJ Brady: oh my gosh.

Lainie Rowell: If they don't know you, cause I am gonna tell a little bit about you, but the one thing I wanna go ahead and lead with is that you are the author of the recently released Raising Kids to be Brave, Smart, and Kind. I'm holding it up to PJ like he's never seen it. This is an audio podcast.

PJ Brady: Wow...

Lainie Rowell: Have you seen this, PJ? It's amazing. So, for those of you who haven't had the joy, honor, privilege, wonderful experience of reading the book, there's a great, I think comedians call it a callback. Like when you, you kind of circle back to a line and "what the bubbles is?"...

I laughed out loud when it came up in the book actually. Anytime you mention "bubbles" now I just giggle out loud and...

PJ Brady: Right.

Lainie Rowell: ...so fun and we don't need to give it away. They have to get the book to understand that inside joke. But I just thought I had to lead with that cause it was so funny.

PJ Brady: I love it and I have to say it over and over and over to myself.

"What the bubbles?"

Lainie Rowell: Yeah.

PJ Brady: "What the bubbles?"

Lainie Rowell: Oh gosh. I even got you to say. That's perfect. That's perfect. Alright, so for those who do not have the pleasure of knowing PJ yet, you're about to get to know him, he's amazing. He's the father of three daughters, #girldad, and he is a values based leadership coach.

And you mentioned already, I think we heard Belgium. Did we ?

PJ Brady: Yeah,

Lainie Rowell: I think we got that out there. Yeah. So that's why we were talking about the time difference, but American born.

PJ Brady: Yeah. Yeah. Born in Point Pleasant, New Jersey of all places and lived in, I don't know, the 13 homes before I was 16 years old. Kind of jumped around, but ended up in here in Belgium.

Lainie Rowell: Why were you jumping around so much? I feel like I read this, but I'm forgetting right now.

PJ Brady: People think I was a military kid, but I wasn't. My dad just changed locations for his job frequently. He was just a problem solver. And he'd go and so we'd go with him and you know what? Wouldn't change it for the world.

Got an incredible childhood and got to see a lot of places, meet a lot of people, and determine who I wanted to be all the time.

Lainie Rowell: That's a great experience.

PJ Brady: American born Belgian by marriage. Global by choice.

Lainie Rowell: I do love that, especially the global by choice because I like to be global by choice. I try and connect with people abroad. I try and do work abroad and during shutdown I got to do more international work remotely versus actually getting on a plane and going places. So it's been kind of nice to have that opportunity.

PJ Brady: Even in that time, we wanted to travel, right?

We were like, okay, if I could just get outta my house and/ or my city and/ or my country right now, that would be fantastic.

Lainie Rowell: I'm like, my go bag is collecting dust. I have duplicates of every toiletry. I have duplicates of all the essentials because I travel a lot just like you do. And so it's like when that go bag is collecting dust, I'm like...

PJ Brady: Something's not right. Something's wrong.

Lainie Rowell: Something's wrong. It's been nice to get back out there. Okay, I barely scratched the surface cuz you do a ton of amazing things. So please fill in the blanks as far as letting people know what makes you so awesome.

PJ Brady: I'll say what I do and then other people can determine whether it's awesome or it's like, oh, it's that guy again.

Lainie Rowell: Fair enough.

PJ Brady: So yeah, founder of the Brace, Smart, Kind company. So I used to travel around the world and I worked with entrepreneurs for 12 years and my wife ended up bringing me over to Belgium, but then I was working with entrepreneurs in Europe, Middle East, Pakistan, and Africa. Traveling around doing leadership workshops, and we worked a lot on values. We worked a lot on corporate values, a lot on personal values. And then what I realized was, as I was talking with all these leaders was if we talked about their values, we realized their values are shaped at a very young age.

Lainie Rowell: Yeah.

PJ Brady: Values are shaped at a young age, but we don't talk about values until people are 30, 40, 50 years old in leadership positions. And then at the same time, I was becoming a father. And I was like, if we know values shift at a young age, why aren't we talking about values with our kids? Why don't we raise them with a little bit more intention?

Why don't we think about this stuff? So that when they're shaping those values, then we can have those relevant conversations. So later in life it just makes a little bit more sense.

Lainie Rowell: Yeah.

PJ Brady: Right? So in that, I started experimenting on my kids. I was experimenting with my content on my children, and I'm like, let's...

Lainie Rowell: Focus group

PJ Brady: ...let's see how they turn out.

Yeah, exactly. I got three live in , members of my focus group, and then all of a sudden I, I don't know if I was pre-programmed or I just stumbled upon it, figured out that the three most foundational values in our world are to be brave, smart, and kind, or how we overcome challenges, how we critically think, how we treat others and ourself.

And when you look at values, there is not a single value that you can find. And I've tried this for years. If you find one, let me know. That doesn't fit into one of those three buckets of how we overcome, how we critically think or how we treat others and ourselves. So I started using that with the kids.

I started using that in my leadership sessions and keynotes and workshops, and then all of a sudden schools started picking it up and running with it without me knowing , which is fine. It not only fine, it's encouraged.

Lainie Rowell: Yeah.

PJ Brady: That teachers, these amazing, amazing humans who are responsible.

Educating the world started to pick up this content and say, if you're doing this in your families, we could do this in schools too. And then from there, I'm here just trying to support them. They're going faster than I am, and I'm just trying to catch up and say, yeah, with this framework, tell me how I can help you out in getting this into your classrooms, getting into the minds of the kids.

So that's been, that's the journey. So far, it's lots of twists and turns, but it's a blast.

Lainie Rowell: I think as an and a parent, I love the framework and it's so nice to have these three powerful words to kind of center yourself around. What I really appreciated taking a deep dive into the book was the way that you define those three words.

and especially, and this is gonna be like my educator hat the smart being about critically thinking. And I think there's a lot of us who we are often tasked with, make sure you cover these standards and do this and be ready for that test and all that. But what we are all really passionate about, I think I speak for most, if not all educators we're really passionate about preparing our kids to be successful and have fulfilling lives and...

PJ Brady: yeah.

Lainie Rowell: ...that isn't necessarily reflected on a test.

PJ Brady: No, and here's the thing is even with some of the teachers I've spoken with, sometimes they feel uncomfortable even using the word smart because in their worlds and what a lot of people in their world define that as is good grades.

Lainie Rowell: Mm-hmm.

PJ Brady: Not the teachers themselves, but they say, if I go and talk to a parent about their kid being smart, they think good grades. And if that means, that they're not getting good grades, that means that they're not smart.

Lainie Rowell: Yeah.

PJ Brady: And I deal with that as a parent too. Like my daughters have come home before and said, dad, I am not smart because they failed a math test.

And I'm like, oh my love, let's revisit what this means. Smart is not getting good grades. Smart is thinking something through. Understanding it and then making the right choice from that. So if you know you're struggling with math, what's the smart thing to do? Well, maybe I should ask more questions.

Yes. Maybe we should spend more time on this. Yes. Maybe we should focus on other things where you are smart, like your creative side or your music side, or. Your problem solving side or your funny side, your quick wittedness. There's so many ways to define smart that it's, that it's like that quote that's actually misattributed to Albert Einstein

But it says if we're how's it go? If we judge all animals by their ability to climb trees, a gold fish will think it's stupid. That is not the quote.

Lainie Rowell: That's ok. That's ok.

PJ Brady: That is not the quote.

Lainie Rowell: I don't have that one left and loaded. PJ, sorry.

PJ Brady: No, I apologize. I butchered the quote. Anyway, it's, if we're saying, if we're judging all the kids by the exact same criteria, there's kids who are gonna walk away thinking that they're stupid. And that's not the case. It's just finding your smart and focusing on that so we can talk to them on their level.

Lainie Rowell: Sometimes kids have some strengths that don't get shined a light on all the time, and they might have some areas of challenge, areas that they need to improve upon, but those are the ones that are front and center. And so they're not just getting honored for all the things that they're doing well.

And I think it's an occupational hazard that as educators, we want that continuous improvement. We want people to be better, so we tend to focus on all the ways that we can tell people to grow.

PJ Brady: Right.

Lainie Rowell: We need to spend more time, I'm putting this on myself. I'm not putting this on other people. I need to spend more time pointing out, I'll say even with my own children.

The first thing in my mind when I wake up in the morning, the task master kicks in and I'm like, the beds aren't made. I have to take a breath and stop myself and go. , what is something kind I can say to my kids first thing in the morning?

PJ Brady: Yeah.

Lainie Rowell: Then we can get to other things later.

But I don't wanna start the day that way.

PJ Brady: I find myself doing that all the time, and it's like this, maybe we got that from our parents. It's just a cycle of it to say, all right, what do I need to correct?

Lainie Rowell: Yeah.

PJ Brady: Let me look for all those things and it comes from a loving place.

Lainie Rowell: It's the best of intentions.

PJ Brady: I want my kids to be well adjusted citizens of the world and do things in a brave, smart, and kind manner. And as soon as we start giving the negative attention around the things that they're not doing, their motivation is not to do the things that we want them to do. All of a sudden there's shame around it and there's guilt around it .It doesn't all of a sudden just create this great child.

Lainie Rowell: Yeah.

PJ Brady: It's like, all right, now I'm gonna even listen less and maybe go into some other negative patterns because my mama and dad are paying attention to that. And once they get that attention for negative things, they continue to do negative things. But if we kind call 'em out for their shine, then they do the shiny things too.

Lainie Rowell: Yeah. I mean, I think I've said this on the show before, but when I was a psych major, I was taught six positives to one negative and if you do a tally...

PJ Brady: Yeah, shoot.

Lainie Rowell: It's tough and the experts don't actually even agree on the ratio.

I've heard four to one, five to one, but I think the, the takeaway is to overwhelmingly notice the good, and that's how we can nurture these brave, smart and kind kiddos who turn into brave, smart, and kind adults.

PJ Brady: Right, right. And even in, in their uniqueness of it all.

And that's the thing, I'm never under the assumption that my kids are gonna be brave, smart, and kind. It's, what's the language we start to put around that so that we notice when they are and they do more of that. And sometimes, like all of us, they're gonna make stupid choices. They're gonna make selfish choices, they're gonna make fearful choices and great, what's the language we've put around this?

So then we can actually deal with those things as opposed to coming from a place where we're punishing them for that or making them feel terrible about themselves.

Lainie Rowell: Yeah. I wanna shift into making the connection to gratitude. I see a lot of connections, and I wanna give you the opportunity first to say, what does gratitude mean to you?

PJ Brady: The cool part about the framework is a lot of things keep coming back full circle, but yeah, gratitude for me is the balance of these three things.

It's where they start to come together, right? Where you get to be courageous for something, and that comes with a certain amount of difficulty. It comes with a certain amount of fear. And once you have those things in your life, the fear and the difficulty, when you find that courage, you're like, oh, thank God. it's there. It was in me. Great. And the same thing happens with having your brain on and the ability to critically think about stuff because when you don't have that, there's a feeling of uselessness.

Lainie Rowell: Mm-hmm.

PJ Brady: There's a feeling of being lost. And then once you find that, find your own.

Like if I define gratefulness, I'm gonna define it with a sound effect and it's gonna be

Lainie Rowell: That's a great sound effect.

PJ Brady: And then the same thing with being kind is not only you being that to others, but also when you find that in others. The people that I choose to surround myself with are incredibly kind individuals. I, again, different definitions of kind. They're not all the exact same, but when you find those people, wow, that's a hold on to them tight and realize how privileged you are.

I think gratefulness and privileged go very hand in hand. To be thankful and grateful for what you have, but also to see the good even when sometimes it's hard.

Lainie Rowell: I can totally make the connection to all of the brave, the smart, and the kind.

One of the frameworks that I talk about with gratitude, Dr. Hussong and her team out of University of North Carolina, they talk about notice, think, feel, and do. So you would notice the goodness in your life. Think about how it came to you, how does this make you feel?

And then, you should do something. Doesn't necessarily mean direct reciprocation. It could be you know, an act of kindness to someone else or something like that. I wonder, cause I hadn't really teased this out in my mind yet, but maybe you can help me think through this. What do, what do you connect that noticing to?

Would it be all of 'em brave, smart, and kind?

PJ Brady: I would say most of the time, when I go into organizations or I work with teachers, the notice part is much more the critical thought aspect of it. Cuz you've gotta have your brain on to be able to notice those things. And so frequently our brains On because of stress, because of focus on other details, because of lack of sleep, because of other relationships that we're trying to deal with because now we've got standardized tests that we, we've gotta focus on, or now we've got whatever, whatever it is.

The notice part for me is you've gotta have your brain on and do that with very specific. intention and when you say, this is what I'm looking for, or it doesn't have to be specific, but once you start paying attention, your brain's on and, and you see it.

Lainie Rowell: Yeah. So the think is the going deeper with it, right?

So still tying that to that critical thinking that makes total sense. I mean, I'm really putting you on the spot here and I hadn't even thought through this, but I was just like, this is kinda interesting. What if we went through all the notice, think, feel, do and how that would connect to brave, smart, and kind?

And I was thinking for the feel, and I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. I almost feel like that's a brave thing. Because a lot of times it's hard to acknowledge that we're feeling this way because of something that someone else did, or maybe even just something that we did.

PJ Brady: Yeah, I couldn't agree more with that. Especially being male and look, I've got three daughters. My wife, I was raised by my mom and my sister. A lot of females in my life. So I would say especially males, there's been such a stigma around feeling all the feels, you know, and then being able to vocalize that. So being able to come to terms with that, it's not just a feeling part.

Everybody feels. To be able to recognize what you're feeling and be able to discuss what you're feeling and be able to be open to those feelings. Because how many times in our life do we just shut ourselves down because, oh, I'm not supposed to feel that because that's not the right thing. Yeah. Or if I'm feeling that, then it means I'm weak.

Or if I'm feeling that it means that I need help when I shouldn't need help or whatever that is. So being able to get in touch with that is a very courageous act. And you know what, most of the time. We don't do it by ourselves. Most of the time we need someone to teach us to do that, or we go talk to a therapist about that, or there's somewhere where that we get that from.

And if society has told you to close that part of you down, well then you're just facing this uphill struggle for so, so long. Are you a Brene Brown fan?

Lainie Rowell: Yeah. Yeah.

PJ Brady: I'm gonna go out on a limb and be like, you're like me and you're a Brene Brown fan. And she has a great story where she always gives these lectures and this man, this very big man came up to her afterwards and he said, you're only talking about women.

And she took a little defensiveness to it. Look, took a little bit defensiveness, and I forget her response to him, but his response back was, people don't let me be vulnerable. They don't want vulnerability outta me. They want strength. And if I give them anything less, then they think less of me.

And she almost just like crumbled in her own skin to think, and that's as soon as she took her, her research going away from just women into men and women very specifically, because that man was able to be courageous enough to talk about his feelings.

Lainie Rowell: I think one of the things I truly appreciate about her work is that she has reframed that no, it's not vulnerability is weakness. Vulnerability is strength. And so for us to be able to understand that, internalize that...

PJ Brady: and have the language to talk to people. And then that "do" part too. Yeah. All right. Now go do it. When you start talking about that, that is interacting with the world, that is going, interacting with others, that's able to interact with yourself and make those right choices for your life. There's also obviously a level of courage to that, but, that part where it's like, yeah, this is how you treat others and this is how you treat yourself through action.

Lainie Rowell: I think we could probably weave brave, smart, and kind. And I appreciate that you do this in the book, so well, you know, how I define brave might be different than how you define brave and all that so coming to the consensus on, when we're having this conversation and using those three words, well this is what it means to me.

I think we could probably go through the whole "notice, thing, feel, do", and see elements of brave, smart, and kind in all of them.

PJ Brady: Yeah.

Lainie Rowell: That's pretty cool.

PJ Brady: That's part of the, I don't wanna say genius, because that makes it think like, I thought about this before it actually popped up.

It's part of the fortunate outcomes of Brave, Smart, Kind is, is that piece of it where you can put all your actions into it and it's, it's not the justification of action, it's the understanding and the reasoning of it. Because once you do that, once you understand it, you can do it with more intention.

You can do it with greater purpose.

Lainie Rowell: Okay. I'm like such a rigid person sometimes that I go, I haven't asked him the second question yet. Now I have to ask him the second question. I'm a work in progress. I'm trying not to be so rigid, but I still have to stick to my three questions.

PJ Brady: I love it. I'm, I'm here for it.

Lainie Rowell: Okay. Thank you. All right I am very curious to your answer to this, and I think we've probably already touched on this in some ways, but I wanna know, is there anything explicitly that you wanna share about how you are experiencing, expressing gratitude, you know, professionally, personally, as a parent, you know, where you're seeing that fit within the framework?

And we've talked about that a little bit, but I just wanna open it up a little further.

PJ Brady: Sure. Well, and I think mine has been a journey to get here and a journey that I started late in life because probably. Shoot. Up until I started having kids , it was probably, oh, let's talk about gratefulness. And it's like, why is it Thanksgiving?

Lainie Rowell: Yeah.

PJ Brady: Do we, do we have to go around the table and say like, what we're grateful for, is that, is that what we're doing here? All right, fine. Yeah. So for mine, it's started to become a theme that people were talking about. Just to be able to be grateful for the things around you is a shift in your mindset that allows you to approach a day with different energy.

It allows you to see certain things where some people would be like, oh crap, I can't believe this happened. It's like, all right, let's slow it down for a second. Because this is happening because you have gotta pay energy bills. It means you've got a, a roof over your head. Like, let's be thankful for the things that we have and, and approached life like that.

And it took me a while to even come around to understand why gratitude is something that's important in life. Luckily, it happened with the early ages of my daughters, so that I can weave that into our definition of being brave, smart, and kind. And part of that is, yeah, I understand that things are hard in your life.

First, let's focus on what we do have. Let's focus on the things that we get to have gratitude for, which gives us strength and energy to go attack the things that we need to overcome. And why are you doing that? What is your motivation? If your motivation here is a relationship that you need to save, well yeah, be thankful that you have that and that should give you some motivation to go and take care of it.

And if not, if you start to break it down into helping you achieve those goals, then it's such a powerful tool to have in your, in your tool belt. Right? But without it, and I've seen, there's, man, I hope I don't get a lot of Belgian listeners here on this. The culture here in Belgium isn't one of gratitude primarily, and that doesn't mean there aren't Belgians who, who do have this. In general, it's more of a low context, very realistic. I'm saying realistic in quotation marks for people who are listening to the audio, obviously. Where there's a gray cloud over a lot of things. Yeah. And so sometimes here it's a struggle. It's like, just try to turn it around, turn it around and, and see it from a, from a different angle.

And I noticed that in my girls too. So as soon as I noticed it in my girls, I was like, whoa, I better step up my, my gratitude game here, because they're gonna be learning lessons from me. And I need to make sure that in my journey of understanding this, that not only do I understand it, but then I put it at the forefront of our conversations, which.

I try to do, and again, they're like 12, 10, and six. We'll see how it goes.

Lainie Rowell: I'm totally relating to you because I would love to say I have been a deeply grateful person my whole life, but no, that is not even close to it. There have, there have been waves of gratitude when I was maybe younger, maybe.

I'm gonna say in college I was probably the most entitled of my entire life and helps to get you out there in the workforce and understand a more things to be grateful for, but what was really lovely is, like I said, I relate to you because I feel like I went on the gratitude journey with my kids.

And we know developmentally that birth to six years old, roughly. That we're just trying to nurture those positive characteristics, trying to, you know, teach them to do the, the good things. And then it's seven to 10 roughly, we can actually start to see them reliably experiencing and expressing gratitude in a much deeper way.

And then by the time 11 up, if we have nurtured this grateful disposition, that's when we're seeing all the payout we're seeing stronger social connections, it's actually been researched better grades, we're seeing just an overall optimism. I feel like I've been on this journey with them, like, I have to be a good person to teach them to be good people.

And then once getting out of having like really littles, being better at a more deep appreciation for things, more deep gratitude. And now I'm just, it's, it's a contextual thing. You know, if you ask me what does gratitude mean? It might change day to day because it sometimes depends on what's happening in my life.

PJ Brady: Yeah, I wonder what kind of research is out there from a cultural perspective on this. And the reason I'm asking this, I mean, I brought up Belgian, but the reason I'm asking is because I'm thinking now to my daughter, my eldest daughter who's 12 years old, and thinking to some of her friends and the ones that I noticed the most gratitude in, there's one who, she has Greek and Albanian parents, and then there's others who are Belgian, but she was born in Kenya and lived in Kenya, just came back to Belgium more recently, and some of these other cultures that just have this more optimistic outlook on life and those ones very much express gratitude in different ways than I've seen some of the others. I hadn't even thought about that until right now, but I wonder, I wonder.

Lainie Rowell: The science of gratitude has only been around for about 25 years, you know, where they like started actually doing like the gold standard of research and all of that.

And then in the last five to 10 years it's gone exponential. They have actually done a little bit of research on the culture aspect of it. But there's so much goes into who we are, you know, it's our values, it's our family situation, gender, culture is a piece of it. But it's not the only piece of it.

When the scientists are looking at it, they're noticing that in some cultures it's more about the connective gratitude spending time with you, but they also notice it's by age because a lot of times the concrete is what they go for.

Like, you give me a toy, I give you a toy. There's like so many layers to it. It hurts my brain almost to think about it. But culture is a definite factor.

PJ Brady: Now my interest has peaked. Now I'm gonna have to go study more about, more about gratitude.

Thanks a lot Lainie, I get on this and like I get more work all of the sudden.

Lainie Rowell: Yeah, I know you're a busy guy. I don't mean mean to give you more, but I'll talk gratitude anytime you want.

PJ Brady: I love it.

Lainie Rowell: It's interesting cuz there are some cultures where it's considered an insult to say thank you because this is an expectation.

PJ Brady: Yeah. Yeah. And even that, it doesn't mean that there's not a feeling of gratitude, it's just the way in which you express gratitude and respect and all of those things. That is a whole nother nuance, isn't it?

Lainie Rowell: A hundred percent.

Yeah.

PJ Brady: Hmm.

Lainie Rowell: We're going deep. Okay. , I know I gotta let you go pretty soon. I am so grateful for your time. I don't use that word lightly. I do truly appreciate you staying up a little later. You know this is like your quiet time in your house, potentially with all three girls asleep.

PJ Brady: This is work time because they're asleep and I work with America all the time.

I'm like, oh, no, I'll just schedule that. My quiet time is when they go to school in the morning. I'm like, all right, I'm going to the gym. I'm gonna read a little, I'm gonna relax.

Lainie Rowell: Well, I'm gonna get you back to work then. You're, you're middle of the night working and who would you like to give a shout out to?

PJ Brady: You know what, from this, it actually goes back to our introduction, Michael and Maureen Crawford. Maureen is a partner of mine. She works with me here at the Brave, Smart, Kind company, and Michael is her husband. And just from the minute that I met both of them, they have been ridiculously giving and kind of their time and their energy and their perspective and everything.

And even getting the boys, they've got two sons who I, I know them. I talk to them like on , on, on video calls and stuff. Talk about two people who just kind of go out of their way to help others, and I couldn't be more grateful for, for both of them.

Lainie Rowell: Well, I now, know, both of them. I actually knew Michael, you know, part of my P L N, and then Maureen and I got connected. And now we're connected. So I'm grateful for them too, and I do genuinely see that in them, that they're just great people who want to help other people do amazing things. Those are good people to have around.

PJ Brady: Yeah, they're good. And, oh, one other thing is I'm grateful that I do have some sort of memory that recalls this, that "if you judge a fish by its ability to climb trees, it'll spend its entire life thinking that it's stupid". That was the quote, and I needed to redeem by myself. for messing it up the first time.

Lainie Rowell: Does that count as a callback?

PJ Brady: We're gonna make it into one.

Lainie Rowell: Okay. Perfect. Perfect. All right, my friend. People are gonna wanna connect with you. I highly encourage them to grab the book, Raising Kids to be Brave, Smart, and Kind. And what else would you say for them to connect to you and your work.

PJ Brady: Oddly enough, as popular as those words are, if you Google Brave, Smart, Kind, all of our stuff comes up. So it's the leadership content and the school stuff. We've got BraveSmartKind.com and then all of our handles on social media are @BraveSmartKind, and you will connect and I don't know, I don't know when we're airing this, but if anyone's at South by Southwest edu it's my first time going. I'm still new to this educational space cuz my background is leadership. I'm still getting into it and so I love it. And I would love to, to connect with any of your listeners.

Lainie Rowell: When is it again? It's March, right?

PJ Brady: Yeah, beginning. The sixth through the ninth.

Definitely hit me up on the website, on the socials and love to have these conversations with especially educators right now. I mean, I'll talk to anyone about this if you're in leadership roles or organizations, but educators, if you want some support in getting Brave, Smart, Kind into your classrooms or your schools, give us a holler and we'll do everything that we can to help you out.

Lainie Rowell: Oh, that's awesome. Thank you so much for your time and I'm gifting this book to some of my friends who they saw me post about it on the socials and they're like, Ooh, tell me about this book.

And I'm like, I'll get you a copy. It's a really good book and I hope people get a chance to check it out whether your parents are not, we're all trying to raise these kids and teachers spend a lot of time with kids.

They sometimes spend more time than their parents do, especially during the week.

PJ Brady: That's for sure. Thank you so much for having me on and for just the work you do and what you're putting out in the world. I mean it's a better place because of it. So thanks so much.

Lainie Rowell: I say the same to you.

Thank you my friend, and thank you all for listening.

PJ Brady: Thanks everyone.

Episode 44 - Bamboo Moments on the Road to Awesome with Guest Darrin Peppard

Shownotes:

Buckle up for an inspiring ride! Dr. Pep's honesty and vulnerability combined with his message of positivity and hope make this an engaging and delightful listen. Darrin provides powerful ways to create a culture and climate where everyone can succeed feeling seen, heard, valued, and trusted. Shoutouts to Betsy Parker, Eric Lillis, Jessica Peppard (wife) and Liz Peppard (daughter).

About Our Guest:

Traveler of the Road to Awesome, professional speaker, leadership coach, & author helping leaders gain clarity, walk in purpose, and find joy in their work - Host of the Leaning into Leadership Podcast.

Website: https://roadtoawesome.net/

Twitter: @DarrinMPeppard Instagram: @darrin_m_peppard

About Lainie:

Lainie Rowell is an educator, international consultant, podcaster, and TEDx speaker. She is the lead author of Evolving Learner and a contributing author of Because of a Teacher. Her latest book, Evolving with Gratitude, was just released. An experienced teacher and district leader, her expertise includes learner-driven design, community building, online/blended learning, and professional learning. Learn more at linktr.ee/lainierowell.

Twitter - @LainieRowell 

Instagram - @LainieRowell

Evolving with Gratitude, the book, is now available! Purchase here!

You can also get bulk orders for your staff (10 copies or more) at a discounted price! Just fill out the form linked below and someone will get back to you ASAP! bit.ly/ewgbulkdiscount

Transcript:

Lainie Rowell: [00:00:00] Hello friends. Oh, I'm so excited. This is my first recording of the new year. , will come out in February, but I had a few of them stacked up and now I'm ready to have another friend on who I am super excited to introduce you to. And so we have on the show today, Darrin Peppard. Hello. Wait, I said your name kinda funny, didn't I, I kind of gave you an accent.

Darrin Peppard: No, you said it right. Actually.

Lainie Rowell: Did I?

Darrin Peppard: Oh. Well, I think so. I think so. Take another shot at it. I wanna hear it. I wanna hear it.

Lainie Rowell: Darrin Peppard. Do I say it funny?

Darrin Peppard: Very close. It's almost yes. Peppard.

Lainie Rowell: What am I saying? It's "pepper-ed". Okay. See I was adding like an accent. And it's funny too...

Darrin Peppard: Oh, it's okay.

Lainie Rowell: ...cause I listened to your show. I've heard you say your name. But I I will get that again. So, Darrin Peppard.

Darrin Peppard: Well, I'm, I'm pretty confident people probably get yours wrong sometimes too.

Lainie Rowell: Always.

Darrin Peppard: In fact, I think when you were on my show, you phonetically spelled it out like, like, here's how Rowell. Like, this is how, it's so...

Lainie Rowell: yeah.

Darrin Peppard: And so, no, no worries at all. No worries at all. Thanks for having me.

Lainie Rowell: I just, I try and be sensitive to it because it is wrong a lot and so I don't really care that much. But I, I don't want people to like say it one way for like years and then hear someone say it and they're like, have I been saying it wrong for years?

I have a friend who, this happens to her. Yeah. Her last name has been mispronounced by pretty much everyone we have in common. And I don't know how to fix it for her , so,

Darrin Peppard: oh. Yeah, so, so I, I have a distant relative who, I mean, he's, he's now since passed away named George Peppard, who was an actor forever in Hollywood.

A team, you know, all of that kind of stuff. Actually changed his name from "Pepper-ed" to "Peppard" because when he got to Hollywood, I guess it just, nobody could get it right. So he just gave in, it's like, whatever. But he's like, my dad's, I don't know, like fifth cousin, twice removed. I mean, there's like barely a relation there. But at least enough to where I know the story of how, how, yeah. Everybody called him George Peppard. And so that's what everybody thinks. That's how my name is pronounced and, but I'm not gonna give in, I'm not gonna relent and change it.

Lainie Rowell: No you shouldn't. I said it right at least dozen times off air.

Darrin Peppard: It's all good. It's your first one back of the year. You get a little latitude.

Lainie Rowell: Do I get a mulligan? I'm gonna take it. Thank you.

Darrin Peppard: There you go.

Lainie Rowell: All right. After that let me make sure and introduce you. It will be just a very quick intro and I'd love for you to, to jump in and add more.

So, you are an amazing prolific speaker writer. You are the author of Road to Awesome. I'd love to talk about your book. You're a leadership coach. You are. A host of a podcast Leaning into Leadership, which I was honored to be a guest on. And you know, one of the reasons we both do podcasts, cause I've heard you say this, so correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I can speak for both of us saying that we love to have guests cuz we get to learn from each other.

And so, you know, when I was on your podcast, and I probably did too much talking. I wanna talk to you now.

Darrin Peppard: I get that. I get that. You know it, it's interesting when I launched the podcast as we're sitting here doing this recording, we're 53 episodes in. So if this launches in February, we'll be, I don't know, 57, 58 episodes in whatever.

. It's amazing. You know, when I first started mine, I don't know what your, what your thought was when you launched, you know, this podcast, but I was like, you know, it's mostly gonna be me talking, and occasionally they all have guests and man, Lainie, I got like that third or fourth guest under my belt and I'm like, I don't want to have anybody listen to me talk.

Oh my gosh, I learned so much. And I, I just love all the connections. I mean, like, you know, you and I, even though we've been connected for quite some time. Our first conversation was when you were on my podcast. Yeah. So yeah, it's been amazing this this podcast journey. I'm really loving it.

Lainie Rowell: I just have so much fun with these organic conversations. I have done a few by myself but I try and keep them really short, and I hope people find them beneficial, but I really just wanna talk to people and amplify their voices. Not that they necessarily need me for it, but any, any chance to get the, the word out is always a good thing. So I, want you to tell more about yourself because I, I mean, I did talk about your speaker, author, leadership coach, podcast, or all that.

What else do you want people to know about?

Darrin Peppard: You know, I think the most important thing to know about me is I am a recovering high school principal. I was a high school principal in my home state of Wyoming. I, I was actually, I worked in that building between my assistant principal time at principal time for 11 years and when I say I'm a recovering high school principal, I say that with every ounce of love you can imagine. In my heart, I loved that job. I think it is the best job I've ever had. I had this crazy idea that I needed to chase the superintendency, which is what the next role that I took, and I don't talk about being a recovering superintendent, cuz that job was okay.

But man, being a principal was just, oh my gosh. It was so amazing. And the relationships that I built with kids and adults and community, I mean, just we'll, we'll get into that later when we talk about where I've seen gratitude, but I think that's one thing to know about me. Maybe a second thing.

I spent 26 years in public education, and even though this is my second year full-time as a consultant, you know, leadership coach and, and all the speaking and stuff that I do, I still consider myself a public educator. I, I got a message this morning from somebody, you'll find this funny

It was one of those like intro. Texts. So somebody that I know texts me, but they put somebody else in there and they're like, Hey, you know, so-and-so meet Darrin, Darrin meet so-and-so, you know, and in the text the person put Darrin as a retired educator who now does blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Oh, hold the phone.

Lainie Rowell: Yeah.

Darrin Peppard: No, I'm not, that's, you know, number one, I'm not old enough to be retired. Number two, I'm darn sure not wealthy enough to be retired. I'm doing what I do in a little bit different space. Than, you know, being in an office every day. So I'm a husband, I'm a father, I'm a brother, I'm a son.

I'm a traveler of the Road to Awesome. That's, that's what I am.

Lainie Rowell: I do love that you say that and you're a great person, a great friend. I can add that to that now that we've actually had a chance to have a, a couple conversations live and Yeah, we've known each other on the socials for a while, so I always love these chances to talk and you, you have such a message of positivity, hope, and you're really inspiring.

I really loved reading your book. I wanna get into that cause you have big, big news to share about that too. Sure. So let's, let's get to that. But first, let's start off with what does gratitude mean to you?

Darrin Peppard: So, you know what, I struggled with this one. I'm glad you gave me a heads up that, that you were gonna ask me this question because to me it's more than just saying thank you or thinking about, you know, what, what is around you.

I mean, to me it's like, it's like taking that deep breath. You know, just that and getting re-centered on what you really care about and what really matters to you. And then cherishing those things, you know, and actually being able to say thank you for those things. But I think it takes that reentering, it takes that deep breath to really find what we are grateful for as opposed to just some blanket statement of, you know, oh, I'm grateful for this and this and this, and this, and this, and gratitude is, you know, saying thank you. I mean, it is, I'm not saying that any of those things aren't true, but I really think that that deep breath and remembering what you really care about as a human being, that to me is what, what gratitude really should be all about.

Lainie Rowell: Oh, that was lovely to hear. First of all, you said deep breath, the power of suggestion. I immediately started taking a deep breath and it's so...

Darrin Peppard: I watched you do it.

Lainie Rowell: So amazing.

Darrin Peppard: but I was doing it too. I dunno if you noticed. I was doing it too. I'm like...

Lainie Rowell: oh, we were in it together. That was our deep breath shared experience.

I loved it. Layering another shared experience on top of this conversation we're having, but I really think I keep coming back to this idea of like pausing, being present for it to be true gratitude, right? Because it's just so easy in our distracted lives and you know, we're recording in.

Gosh, it feels like my kids had a really weird break. They just are back to school and it's January 9th when we're recording. And so but it was a true pause. I've never done this where, well, not never, but it's been a very long time since I did a true pause where I'm not on the socials at least once a day where I'm not on myself about like, you need to be doing this. So that deep breath and that recentering definitely can happen at any time. But I think also the fresh start of a new year is helping me refocus on that.

Darrin Peppard: Oh yeah. Yeah. I agree with you. And you know, I, I think about like again, yeah, here we are with the beginning of a new year and you know, we all have, you know, new goals or, you know, maybe we're, you know, dusting off a, a new one word or you know, now there's the four word mantra. I didn't do that one. But you know, there's all these different ways for us to, you know, kind of get centered on our year and, and on what we want to accomplish.

And, you know, for me, I mean I say this is what gratitude is, but I'll be honest with you, I stink at some of this and it's something that I want to get better at. You know, so to just simply say, this is what gratitude is, because that's what I do isn't necessarily true. It's, this is what I want it to be.

And this is what I want to be able to kind of grow into more of that, you know, you were, you were saying just before we hit record about, you know, you being able to, Shut it down and, you know, go with the family and just, and just be, and I think the last time I did that would've been about May of 21.

So, I mean, we're talking a while now. And one of the things that I've written into my goals this year I, I think you know this, but the listeners may not Road to Awesome, my company, is totally a family company. It's myself, my wife, my daughter actually does a small bit of our work. She does our email marketing.

She's our webmaster, but I've written into the goals for the company this year, three retreats, and those are like, let's go somewhere. We'll definitely reflect and talk about where we are, adjust course, those kinds of things. But also, let's just do that deep breath thing, you know, let's, and I don't care where it is.

I mean, it might be last time we went somewhere, it was Indian Roxby Beach in Florida, which I would be happy to go back to, but you know, maybe it's just Kansas City's two hours away, you know, or I don't even know, wherever it might be. But just, yeah, we've all gotta be willing to disconnect and step away from the socials and step away from work and that's something that I'm really focusing on as we, as we get rolling here in 2023.

Lainie Rowell: Yeah. loving the, the idea of the retreat. And even though it's not just about location, it's really about a change up and taking that breath that you mentioned, recentering.

Darrin Peppard: Absolutely.

Lainie Rowell: That's so critical. All right. , I'm curious how you're gonna respond to this one, because I think there's a lot of ways you could talk about what you do and, and I would love it...

Darrin Peppard: Come at me.

Lainie Rowell: I would be happy if you shared a story that you shared when I was on your podcast. I was able to sneak one question in for you, but take this in whatever direction you want. So what are the ways that you are experiencing and expressing gratitude?

Darrin Peppard: Oh man. You know, when I think about some of the best stories, the best times when I've seen gratitude being expressed, it's those authentic, just genuine moments that occur when. We've invested a relationship, you know, we invested ourselves in a relationship.

I was thinking about this earlier today and maybe I should have gone back and re-listened to the episode of my podcast with you on there, cuz I don't know which story I told. But I'm thinking about what, what I refer to as just those bamboo moments. You know, the, the thing about Chinese bamboo, just real fast, for listeners who maybe don't know this, Bamboo takes five years from the time the seed germinates until it actually like shows up above the ground.

It takes five years, but then once it germinates, it can grow as much as 80 feet in as little as six weeks. I mean, it's, it's a remarkable plant. and I talk about bamboo because to me it's just this perfect analogy for what we do in education. You know, we invest and we invest and we invest and we cultivate and cultivate and cultivate and you know, we're, we're watering those seeds constantly and we're nurturing those seeds.

And it could be 10 or 15 years later that you hear from a kid and it's a genuine moment of gratitude when they reach out and say, I just want you to know how much being in your class meant, or, you know, I remember when you talked about this, or because of you, I am now doing this in my life.

And it's also one of the hardest things I think about being an educator, because we don't make widgets, you know, we don't walk away at the end of the day and say, look at what we got done. You don't know that for years, and so I could probably tell you a thousand stories, but to me that's kind of where, where I kind of went with that was just all those bamboo moments and here's why I think they're important, Lainie, right now we're, we're at a time in education where holy cow, it is so hard and our teachers are, man, they're struggling and I think about our early career teachers, I think about our early career leaders who maybe don't have any bamboo, you know, they haven't been at it long enough to have had that moment at Walmart or on Facebook or whatever, where, you know, a kid reaches out.

I had a kid reach out to me 20 years after I had him in class just to tell me about how everything had changed in his life and to apologize for not being like, totally engaged in my class as a senior in high school. , it was biology too, dude. I don't care if you were engaged in it, but he's telling me now about how now he's, he's a practicing veterinarian and all this stuff he went through in his life and wanted to reach out to me and just say thank you.

I mean that's, that's genuine gratitude. Hmm. And as educators right now, especially our early career people, we gotta share those stories with them cuz they don't have that and you know, that could easily cause them to say, You know, this is just a job and I don't, I don't wanna be a part of this, and it'll take a while before they get that bamboo.

So anyway, I don't think I really answered your question, but...

Lainie Rowell: I think you answered it beautifully.

Darrin Peppard: That's where I wanted to go.

Lainie Rowell: There's no rules on this podcast. People have even teased me about it. I really love that. I wanna go back to how you even started with it, with talking about the authentic.

you know, when you're authentic and you're investing in people, like you said and I love the, the bamboo. Would we call that an analogy? Is it a metaphor?

Darrin Peppard: Yes. Yes. I believe I always get that one wrong. I was a science guy. I don't know. I got the bamboo part. I mean, if you wanna call it an analogy, this analogy.

Lainie Rowell: We're gonna say the bamboo story.

Darrin Peppard: I actually think it is. Yeah. .

Lainie Rowell: So when you were talking about bamboo moments, which is beautiful. I was listening and I was trying really hard to not go off and think about some of the stories and the moments where I've had that and so intentional in thinking about, we have to share those with those who don't have them yet.

And I think that that's a really important thing. I think that's gonna help twofold. One, it's good for us to remember them, especially in the tough times. Right. It's gonna help them who haven't had them yet, so it's a nice shared experience to be able to reflect on, I didn't think I was doing anything and then this came about.

When we're done recording, I'm gonna go reflect on some of the stories. And I'm thinking about like this letter that one of my second graders wrote. I had done something and I'm not gonna get into it cuz this is your time. But I literally have this opened on my laptop right now because I've been going back and re-reading it over the last few months.

I don't know why, but it just was something that I was receiving gratitude in such a special, authentic way. This eight year-old wrote this really long letter and she was not someone who spent a lot of time on writing.

So that was really special to me. I love the bamboo moments. So I'll remind you of the story that you told when I was on your podcast. You'll know immediately. It involves a wooden box and tape.

Darrin Peppard: Oh, yeah.

Lainie Rowell: See, I got it. Yes, there it is.

Darrin Peppard: It's right here.

Lainie Rowell: So I would love for you to share that with our listeners, although they should also go back and listen to your podcast every episode. But if you would briefly share that with us.

Darrin Peppard: Of course. So it's actually right here in my hand. I love that you brought that one up. When I was a second year teacher, my first principal, Betsy Parker, God love Betsy Parker best, best mentors I've ever been around.

She decided she wanted to do a handwritten note for everybody on staff, and she hid them in our classroom, like right at the beginning of the school year. And you know, I think part of it was, let's see how long it takes them to find it. And two, I think she was just having a little bit of fun and well, mine, I have this wooden pencil box and it's sitting on my desk here in my office right now. But it sat on my desk in, in every classroom that I taught in. And then also every office that I was in, as you know, principal, superintendent, that kind of thing. So she put the note in this pencil box. It was made by my grandfather.

I mean, it means so, so very much to me. And then I opened it up one day, year two as a teacher. And here's the snowe from Betsy and I still have that note. I, I, I swear it has gone through 20 different pieces of tape to keep it on there. Cuz the sticky on the sticky note is long gone. But I still have it and I always will.

And you know, I have many opportunities through the course of my life, even though she lives in Arizona where I started my teaching career and I live, you know, now in Nebraska, I've had numerous occasions where I'm in the town where she lives, and I always make sure I go and, you know, spend a couple of hours with her and invariably that story will come up.

And she tells me kind of what she was thinking behind it and what, what I love about it. And what it drove me to do as a school leader was to do those handwritten notes. I did them every year and I did 'em quite frequently, and I would notice, just like with this one sitting in, in the pencil box on my desk, I would go into teacher's classrooms or I would go into the cafeteria or I would go over into the bus barn or wherever, and you know, that that handwritten note maybe went with a coffee Tumblr, or maybe it went with, you know, a pin or a button or a shirt or whatever.

Because anytime we did that stuff, we didn't just shove 'em in people's mailboxes. I would go in on a Sunday and put it in wherever their location was. You know, I mean, it, it's a few hours out of my time, but, but to put it right in their workstation, put it in their bus, in the driver's seat or whatever, you know, it meant a lot to them.

But I would find those notes. I mean, people would lose the coffee tumblers. The, the year we did coffee Tumblers Lainie, I swear I lost like seven of those coffee Tumblers, . So I know others did too. Yeah. And so be it, it was a coffee Tumblr, but I, I would still find those notes just like this one I have, you know, with a, a magnet on their filing cabinet or under the, the glass, you know, that, that covers their desk or whatever. I mean, it, the handwritten note to me, man, that's like the greatest leadership tip ever . For building community, building culture. It's, it's just like those handwritten notes that you would do on, on papers for kids. They'd go home and they'd go on the refrigerator. Right?

Lainie Rowell: Yeah.

Darrin Peppard: You know, I mean, Do it for your adults. They love it just as much. Obviously I do, you know,

Lainie Rowell: I know. I mean, decades later, years later, it's, yeah. Yeah. We don't need to get to the number exactly, but decades later.

Darrin Peppard: No, no, no. I don't wanna do the math.

Lainie Rowell: So I wanna kinda savor this for a minute because I think there is really something special.

I think we can all appreciate the handwritten, but the going into the person's space and specifically... Now, I don't want anyone to get mad at me about this. There's a time to put something in everyone's mailbox. That's fine. But a lot of times when that happens, , it seems so cookie cutter that the authenticity, even if you spent hours upon hours writing personal detailed letters, it just loses something when, mm-hmm.

I go to Lainie's mailbox and I see everyone else has something in theirs, and so I love the putting it in the space and she happened to choose a space, or maybe she knew that that box meant something to you, but now that box means extra to you, right? Like it's from your grandfather and it's got this note from Betsy.

And so there's something much more personal to me about that I love the idea of the bus drivers seat, right? Like that's what they see when they open up the bus. And so I think that's really special and I think there's a lot of ways that we can do just the littlest things make a big difference, where it's like, no, this is not something I just blanketly did.

Like I thought of you and I thought it would be fun for you to find it in here.

Darrin Peppard: Well, that's the key right there, what you just said. I thought of you. You know, it's. Man, what's the best way I can say this? I'll just, I'll just say it this way. We are in the people business period, right? I mean, the work we do, the product is a person, you know, for, for the nine months that you have the kids in your classroom, your job is to make them a little bit better people.

That's your job. You know, your job isn't to crank out test scores in spite of what some people might believe. It's not your job. Your job is to make a person better. So it's the same with our adults. If we want our adults to make our kids better people, we then have to invest in making our adults better people.

And you do that by showing gratitude, by genuinely caring for them, letting them know that they're seen and they're heard and they're loved in their workspace. And yeah, for me, you know, when I first did that and went and, you know, put stuff in classrooms, it was when I was a school principal, the first thing I ever did that I also included handwritten notes.

I had noticed my teachers at parent-teacher conference and one in particular, and she had this big line of parents. You know, you go to parent-teacher conferences and there's some teachers who get like five people. And then there are the people who make the mistake of saying, oh, I'll give you extra credit, and they have 10,000 people.

And then you have the others who just genuinely have a lot of parents who need to talk to them. This teacher was one of those, she was that part of that group three. And she's just like tearing little sheets of paper, constantly writing her email address down, you know, and, and writing the office phone number down and like handing it to parents.

And I finally asked her, I'm like, what are you doing? And she's like, well, I'm just giving them my email address and stuff. And I'm driving home that night. I'm like, wait a minute. So we're professionals. We expect people to treat us like professionals and we don't have a simple thing like a business card.

It's just stupid. So I had business cards made for everybody on my staff and I went and put 'em in their spaces. And I just wrote a simple, I mean really simple, you know, handwritten note. And it was probably something like, you know, one professional to another, have a wonderful day or just something simple.

And holy cow, the gratitude that came back from people. I gotta tell you this. We were sitting in an interview interviewing for teachers, and we were using my office, but I wasn't leading that interview team. One of my assistant principals was, so I was just in the room and they were interviewing this, this young man, his name's Dustin.

We ended up hiring him, and this isn't why, but when asked, you know, why do you wanna be at our school? He said, you know, I did my homework and I found that your principal was giving business cards to all the teachers. He's like, I wanna be somewhere you're gonna treat me like a professional.

And so, yeah, we're, we're in the people business and we want to treat our people like professionals, but we also want to treat them in a way that they know that, Hey, I see you, I hear you. I love you. I care about you and you know I'm gonna support you.

And just one more thing I wanna say on that. And that's the in their space. It's not just doing the handwritten notes. If you need to talk, and I'm talking to school leaders right now, if you need to talk to a teacher, go to them. Don't ask them to come to you. Their time is infinitely more valuable than yours. Go to them. Talk to them in their space, in their area, on their turf.

If it's a personnel issue, obviously it comes to your office. But anything else, good Lord, get out and go see them. Go to them. You're just telling them how much you care about 'em when you do that. So that was a big rant. Holy cow. That was a rant. But...

Lainie Rowell: I love that though, because that has not come up on this show at all, and I think that's such a, such a very nuanced, thoughtful step that I hadn't thought very deeply about until just now, and I really love that. And just the whole idea of honoring them enough to go to them and appreciating them as professionals and just this respect that you're showing, which is so important. I'm very excited about that and I think that's a very easy thing for people to implement right now. Right? And teachers can do it for students. Go to their desk, don't call them to your desk. Right? Like, I will come to you. I love that.

Darrin Peppard: We model what we expect people to do. You know, that's a pretty simple thing.

Lainie Rowell: Yeah. Oh my goodness. Well, I could talk to you for hours and hours, but I know you're very busy and I'm gonna just ask you for the third thing before we ask, you know, to share how people connect with you.

First, who do you wanna give a shout out to?

Darrin Peppard: You know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do just a couple well, I'm gonna do three, but one, you know, all the way through this, this difficult time up until this, you know, year and a half ago when I left my superintendency to be to be in the space that I'm in. I go back to my very first day on the job as a teacher, and so new teacher day.

We'll just say it was a long time ago. And I walk in the room and there's a guy sitting there. I'm wearing a Wyoming shirt. I'm a Wyoming kid through and through University of Wyoming graduate multiple times. There's this guy sitting there in an Iowa shirt and Wyoming and Iowa had played in the, in the Holiday Bowl many years before.

And the first thing this guy says to me, it's nice Holiday Bowl cuz Wyoming had lost by three. And I thought, I'm not gonna like this guy. Now 20... I don't know, 28, 29 years later, Eric Lillis, who is the superintendent of Kingman Academy of Learning Charter School in Kingman, Arizona. Still to this day, one of my very best friends, one of my best confidants.

He's carving his own space in you know, in the education world. But I will tell you, Him , him being there as, as kind of a sounding board. I know we do this for each other. But he's somebody that, that truly just, just really means a lot to me and, and has been an incredible support.

He even helped to facilitate the work we're doing on the new cover, on the updated books. So shout out to Eric Lillis. I wanna shout out my entire Road to Awesome family. So, Not just, you know, the team here, you know, at the house, but all of our authors all of our clients, we've just got some amazing people we get to work with.

Our authors are truly incredible people out there in the space, they are doing amazing things. So I'm really grateful for each and every one of them. And then, grateful for my wife and my daughter too. So there you go.

Lainie Rowell: Awesome. Now, I want you to know I was not gonna let you go without talking about the re-release of your book so you were never gonna be off the hook for that. Tell us about it. This is exciting. I'm so happy for you.

Darrin Peppard: It is.

Lainie Rowell: And I've, I've read your book, Fivestar review on Amazon, Good Reads, all that fun stuff. Actually, I need to make sure I did it on good reads too. Sometimes it doesn't. You know, when you do the digital, it's supposed to put it in both places, I dunno if it did it. I'm gonna go double check.

Darrin Peppard: Doesn't always happen.

Lainie Rowell: It doesn't always and I'm like really offended by that.

Darrin Peppard: Yeah, I know, I know. So, so my book Road to Awesome was released in July of 2020. You know, something that you and I also share in common. You know, being pandemic book baby individuals.

Now yours was like, right when it all started, mine was at least a few months later, but nonetheless, you know, it was released during the pandemic. It, it had a lot to do with me being able to, to move forward in the work that I'm doing. But reviewing through that, you know, and, and you get this, I mean, you, you have a book out right now and you're speaking about it all the time.

And same thing. I have been talking till I'm blue in the face about this book for the last two years, and. There's some things that, that honestly have changed and you know, I, I think the way I look at some things have changed a little bit. I was telling you before, before we hit record, that, you know, here's a book on school leadership that doesn't talk about instructional leadership.

So there's a whole new chapter on instructional leadership and some other things that we've changed. We reacquired the rights to the book and, and now it'll be re rereleased is the second edition. It's gonna be an updated edition. We've made a lot of changes to the book. Not just, I mean, literally cover to cover.

So I mean, the cover's completely different and a lot of the content inside, some of it, some of the really great stuff remained. But then, yeah, we added a couple chapters, pulled some things out, and just kind of an updated and refreshed look at what it means to be a leader on the Road to Awesome. So should be out by the time this podcast releases, it should be out.

Lainie Rowell: Okay, cool.

Darrin Peppard: We're hoping for very end of January, or very early February of '23.

Lainie Rowell: Well, please do me a favor. Once it goes live, shoot me the link and I'll put it in the show notes so people can find the second edition.

Darrin Peppard: I'll do that.

Lainie Rowell: I read the first one. Very happy. I mean, the way you're able to inject your energy and joy and help us do that in our work. That's just amazing and it doesn't surprise me that you wanted to improve upon it. That's the toughest part about a book, right? At some point, it's supposed to go to press and you're like, yeah, but wait, there's more.

Darrin Peppard: You have to let go wait. Yeah, so that's, that's where I am now though. I mean, it's, it's in editing right now and it's, this is weird now too though, because it's in editing, but it, the editing is in my house, so I still have access to it. And there's actually the last chapter I'm still writing. But I know that, yeah, here in the next like three or four days, it's gonna be okay, you gotta let it. because , it's gotta be outta your hands so it can get done. And that is tough. It really is.

Lainie Rowell: But It was already a masterpiece and I'm so excited that you got this opportunity to...

Darrin Peppard: I appreciate that.

Lainie Rowell: ... to refresh and re-release. And also people can continue to learn by getting that book once that comes out. And then also, and hopefully by the time they're listening, it is out. But also you've got your podcast that people need to check you out on.

Darrin Peppard: Absolutely.

Lainie Rowell: So Leaning into Leadership is a great podcast and I am...

Darrin Peppard: thank you.

Lainie Rowell: ...a subscriber, a listener, and a fan.

Darrin Peppard: So greatly appreciate that. Yeah. Well, again, that's been a fun ride doing the podcast. And I just, I, I love being able to kind of bring some unique voices and then also just, just some outstanding voices to, to leadership. You know, I, I'm bringing people who aren't just educational leaders, but people who, you know, are outside of that space.

So it's just an opportunity to learn. Cuz great leadership's great leadership.

Lainie Rowell: Absolutely. And you're, you're an exceptional host, so people get to learn from you and your guests, and I, I really appreciate that. Okay, so I'll put all this in the show notes. What are the best ways for people to connect with you, the socials, your website, all that fun stuff?

Darrin Peppard: Sure. Yeah. So the website is roadtoawesome.net. And you know, from there hit the contact link. Every single page has gotta contact us link. In fact, when it pops up, click on that and subscribe to the newsletter because then you're gonna get stuff from us all the time. On socials, everything is DarrinMPeppard.

Whether that's Twitter or Facebook, LinkedIn, TikTok who am I leaving out? Instagram. I'm sure there's somebody else, but, but if there's a social media, I'm on it. And I'm DarrinMPeppard.

Lainie Rowell: Perfect. Perfect. Well, I know people are gonna wanna connect with you, so I'll make sure to have all of that in the show notes.

I am so grateful for you, and I thank you for this time. I thank you for continuing to put great stuff out there and as a publisher, amplifying the voice of so many amazing educators. So you're really putting your own stuff out there, but you're also lifting so many other people up and a lot of our friends in common that I'm very excited about their work too. So thank you for all you do.

Darrin Peppard: Yeah. Well, I appreciate that and thank you Lainie for everything you're doing and just leading the way with gratitude. It, it means a lot. And I'm grateful to be connected to you and call you my friend.

Lainie Rowell: Absolutely, my friend. Thank you. And thank you all for listening.

Episode 43 - FreshAir is Better Together with Guest Bryon Carpenter

Shownotes:

Are you ready for a breath of fresh air??? Bryon Carpenter is an educator working with kids at every age and stage teaching math, digital media design, and chemistry! In this very cool episode, Bryon reveals a personal decision he made as an adult that has made all the difference! 

About Our Guest:

Husband, father, Christ-follower, teacher, chemist, outdoors, enthusiast, fisherman, content creator, podcaster, glad for the journey.

Website: Bryoncarpenter.com

Twitter: @bryoncar

About Lainie:

Lainie Rowell is an educator, international consultant, podcaster, and TEDx speaker. She is the lead author of Evolving Learner and a contributing author of Because of a Teacher. Her latest book, Evolving with Gratitude, was just released. An experienced teacher and district leader, her expertise includes learner-driven design, community building, online/blended learning, and professional learning. Learn more at linktr.ee/lainierowell.

Twitter - @LainieRowell 

Instagram - @LainieRowell

Evolving with Gratitude, the book, is now available! Purchase here! 

You can also get bulk orders for your staff (10 copies or more) at a discounted price! Just fill out the form linked below and someone will get back to you ASAP! bit.ly/ewgbulkdiscount

Transcript:

Lainie Rowell  

Welcome to the Evolving with Gratitude Podcast. I'm your host, Lainie Rowell and I'm thankful you're here. Let's talk about ways to bring gratitude into our learning communities to nurture relationships, improve well being, and activate learning.

Lainie Rowell: Hello friends, thank you for being here. Thank you for listening. I am so happy to welcome Bryon Carpenter here. Thank you for being here, Bryon.

Bryon Carpenter: Thanks Lainie for having me. It's so good to be here today.

Lainie Rowell: This is one of those where we were having so much fun chatting before I was like, oh wait, we should probably hit record at some point.

So I'm super happy to be here with you. Yes. And a little jealous cuz in the pre-show I heard you're having brunch with some of my close friends, close as in I adore them, but physically not close to me, and I'm just super jealous that you're all gonna be together tomorrow. So I hope you, I hope you all have fun and send my love

Bryon Carpenter: I sure will. I'll pass along your love to everybody that I'm sitting around the table with for breakfast.

Lainie Rowell: So, so awesome. I'm gonna introduce you. It will not be close to enough, and I'm gonna ask you to add as much as you want because there is so much to you. And even just on the call, like learning even more about what your day-to-day is like.

Just before we hit record, I'm like, wow. So you teach in a virtual school, teaching all ages. Now I am a listener of your podcast and I don't know that I caught this. Like I, I knew that you got to be around all ages, but I don't know that I actually picked up on the fact that you teach all ages K to 12, which is remarkable. Super impressive.

Bryon Carpenter: Yep. Yep.

Lainie Rowell: And that you teach chemistry, math, digital media design. You are a very, very busy man. And on top of that, you also are a podcast host. I just said that cuz I'm a listener, but I want, I want you to fill in the blanks cuz there's a lot that I didn't get a chance to say. So welcome and what, what else do you want us to know about you?

Bryon Carpenter: All right, thanks , . Yeah, I'm a husband, father Christ follower. I am a teacher. I am a fly fisherman. I am a content creator, podcaster, and creativity is a big part of a lot of the things that I do. So that brings me a lot of joy in my life. So creativity's important and... Yeah, I have been teaching for 14 years.

Prior to that I was a research scientist at a pharmaceutical company and discovered after well, I got laid off because there was a hostile board takeover in a nasty situation, and I was able to walk through that process and observe it and feel the pain of that. But they offered me a job in Illinois and I decided I was gonna stay in British Columbia where we live because this is my home.

And you know, we had two children at the time. And it just was a better thing for us to stay here. So we've been here in British Columbia and I grew up in Calgary, Alberta. So I, I went to university there, Master's of CA Science there. And then we moved out here for the pharmacy job, pharmaceutical job.

And then I transitioned to becoming a teacher and which is best move of my life.

Lainie Rowell: I hear how fulfilling and how much joy this job brings you. Even though that's not to say that there aren't hard days, cuz I imagine there are .

Bryon Carpenter: Well, any job has hard days, right? So, you know, if it's all roses all the time, then are you being challenged, right?

Lainie Rowell: Yeah. All right, my friend, this is where I'm gonna get to what many will say is the toughest question I ask , but the good news is there's no wrong answer. So I think that's like, I think it's kind of an easy question in that way.

There's no wrong answer. It's just what does gratitude mean to you?

Bryon Carpenter: Gratitude means to me I grew up in a, in a Christian home. And so growing up, going to church all the time and, you know, reading the Bible and there's a verse in First Thessalonians, chapter five, verse 16 to 18 that says, "Rejoice, always pray without ceasing. Give thanks in all circumstances for this is the will of God in Christ for you." And so growing up, hearing that it was impressed on me by my parents to be grateful and to be grateful for every situation. And then as I became an adult, that significantly changed as it became a personal decision that I had to make every day.

You know? And so, becoming, you know, an adult made it important because it allowed me to process things that were challenging and hard. As we were talking prior to this, you know, I was talking about the snow outside and about getting around and the, the challenge of driving in the snow when we're not used to driving in the snow, it's a process to work through and to go, I am thankful that I'm here safely, you know?

Lainie Rowell: Mm-hmm.

Bryon Carpenter: The things that are challenging in life, like that hostile board takeover at the pharmaceutical company going, okay, had that not happened, I wouldn't have taken the step of faith to go, can I be a teacher? And I figured that I could, but I didn't know the education side directly because I had not ever...

I taught as a lab instructor, like a lab TA in university. But that was the closest that I had to like having to prepare curriculum and do things like that. So I knew I loved people, but I'm like, how hard is this gonna be? What's it gonna be like? And you know, that one year of, of teacher training before I became a teacher, that was challenging because we had two and a half kids during that time and not, we didn't have them, but you know, they, I was, had a family and a home and vehicles and stuff and responsibility, and it was, you know, harder than my Master's of science for that reason. You know, the master's of science was more technical and more demanding academically, but it was way easier because I didn't have the responsibility to go along with that..

Lainie Rowell: I hear you when you say responsibility. I think that has probably always been the biggest challenge for me as an educator, whether I'm working with kids or adults, is this moral obligation to always do the best for our learners, again, of any age. And so that can, that can come with some weight that comes with a lot of weight actually.

And so it's a blessing that we have. Ability to make the impact. But it can also be like, oh my gosh. So I really hear you when you're saying like, well, you know, getting my master's of science was difficult for the academic reasons. But this was a different kind of difficult, was it not what you expected when you got into the classroom?

Had you anticipated this or was it like, cause I don't know if you can anticipate what it's like until you're in it.

Bryon Carpenter: Well, No, I didn't. I, I didn't know what to expect. I knew what it was like to be a student and I, I'd seen teachers teach all my life, but I, I didn't know what it was like to have that responsibility of like, guiding and, and shaping young minds and affecting, you know, things that they think about themselves and going, okay, that's a responsibility.

Yeah, and just learning, learning about how to, how to do that and how to navigate that. So, Yeah.

Lainie Rowell: But you do it so well from what I can see when I hear you talk about your experience as a teacher and what it's like for you to be working with the kids, and it just seems like it's always it's not easy, but it's like I said, fulfilling and joyful for you and something that you're, you're glad that something that was not great led you to something great.

Bryon Carpenter: That's right. Exactly. So the definition that I'm gonna give you is that gratitude is a heart attitude of Thanksgiving. Right? And so that is something, a verb that I do that leads to joy. And so joy is something that is different than happiness. In my thought, happiness is a feeling. Joy is still an attitude of, of peacefulness of. happiness. But it's a lot to me, joy is bigger. It's a much smaller word, but it's a much bigger thing and more significant than being happy. I've heard people talk on podcasts about, you know, being happy and how happiness is, is so important, but I, I think that it can be fleeting and that, you know, chasing joy is a, is a much better pursuit for me.

Lainie Rowell: It's so interesting because the social scientists are always trying to pin down these definitions of what does joy versus happiness mean? And, and you know, obviously the first question I'm asking you is what does gratitude mean to you? And I think it's nice that we have the social scientists helping us come up with what they would consider their best definition, but then our, our own personal, everything that, you know, our religion, our culture, our values, like everything that we bring into it is gonna influence that. And it reminded me when you said the difference between joy and happiness... when I became a mom, one of one of my friends said, the days are long, but the years are short and being a parent is about joy, not happiness, and so kinda like you said, like the joy being the bigger thing. And so that was, that was the connection I made as you were talking about that. I wanna get into, if you're comfortable with it, you know, what is this looking like in your day-to-day, you know, experience and expressing gratitude.

And as I always say, you're welcome to take this in any direction you want. Personal, professional, both. You know, what does it look like with kids, peers, the world, all of the above.

Bryon Carpenter: Mm-hmm. . All right. My one word for 2022, and I've been doing one word for probably about the past four years or so, and a couple years ago it was appreciate, so that was my one word, which gets into like gratitude practices and making sure that I'm paying attention to those around me and being appreciative of the things.

People and the, the stuff, right? And so this past year, my one word was presence. And that's about being right here where I am fully engaged in my now with whomever I'm here with. So like you right now, Lainie, pushing away any distractions, right? And so being able to focus and be present so that I can be fully engaged with whoever I'm with. And I experience what's happening at the moment in time. Right? You know, we've got a camera on Zoom right now recording our conversation and typically many times I'll have my phone out recording what is happening and people are like, Carpenter, put your phone down because like you're missing it.

And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. I got it. We'll watch it later again and again, and again and again. Right? Yeah. You know , my phone, it can be a distraction to others, but for me it allows me to capture, it's a capturing device. I'm not on it doing other things at that time.

I'm like using it as a camera and being present. So, it's about enjoying what's happening at that moment in time.

Lainie Rowell: I like how you're distinguishing between... because it, this is very subtle, but I think a lot of people would say, if you're looking at a device, you're probably being distracted.

Bryon Carpenter: Yes.

Lainie Rowell: Well, that's because of course the device is designed it's the attention game. Every app's trying to get your attention. But that you're talking about like, well, no, I'm being super present. I'm not task switching. Like I am being present in this reflection that I'm doing live as I'm, I'm thinking of like your podcast when you're walking and you're reflecting.

Bryon Carpenter: Yes.

Lainie Rowell: And then you go back and listen to that and you reflect on the reflecting and it's like very meta. Very meta. I love it. And, and that's one of the reasons why I have continued this podcast. Originally, I was gonna make this a very short series and only do you know so many episodes. But I just love the process of being able to have this conversation, like you said, where we're present together and I'm fully engaged in this.

And then I'm also gonna get to go back and listen to it multiple times and I will, I'll listen to it at least a few times cuz I'll check one for audio and I'll make sure the transcript's good and then the day it comes out I always listen to it again.

Tell us more about your podcast cuz I actually see this as a very public display of gratitude.

Bryon Carpenter: All right, so my podcast is FreshAirAtFive, and it started off, I think it was in April of 2019 or 18 or something like that, as #FreshAirAtFive. So that's all one word. I started using that hashtag and you can, you can pick up on this story. If you go to my website, Bryon carpenter.com. And in there I've got a, why am I you doing this podcast? Or what's FreshAirAtFive about? And it started with me being impressed by Sarah Johnson of The In Awe Podcast and Balance Like a Pirate. And her and Jessica Kaine and Jessica Johnson wrote a book called Bounce Like a Pirate and my very first podcasting recording experience was with Tim Cavey back about probably four years ago, maybe five It was a lot. It was a while ago, and Sarah's episode was the episode right after mine, and I hadn't listened to a lot of educational podcasts to that point, but Tim reached out to me and said, Hey, you wanna be on my podcast?

And I'm like, Who, me, little old me. I'm like, well, I, okay. And so I, I recorded and then I listened to Sarah's podcast and I was like so fired up by what she said that I'm like, oh, I'm gonna go buy her book. And so I went and bought the. And the book started collecting dust because that's what books in my house do because I'm not a reader.

And they started collecting dust, which unfortunately, so you know, it was like four months later that I picked the book up and thought, you know, I should probably read this book because it was about work and life balance. And I'm like, well, this is a teeter-totter and you know, if I can get that figured out, then it's a whole lot better.

But she says, no. It's about actually four things. Your personal, professional, your positional, and your passion, and keeping those things in balance and in check with one another. And so that was kind of the, the impetus for working out this balance thing and getting exercise and taking care of myself. And I started going to the gym, but when I went to the gym, I just listened to music in my head and I was like not learning anything.

And I'd run, and then that became difficult because if I didn't get there by 5:00 AM., but five after five, it threw my morning off, right? And threw the routine off. And I'm like, well, I can do, I can start walking on my own around my neighborhood. And I live in a hilly area and so lots of hills and I and I can listen to podcasts.

So I started listening to podcasts and I learned that, you know, If I reach out to a podcaster, they might go, Hey, thanks for listening. Right? And, and have this kind of connection and a way of me saying, thank you for taking the time to do that thing. That takes effort to create a podcast episode so that others can hear it.

And then, I started doing that and I was like, Hey, you guys gotta listen to this podcast because it impacted me. And, and one thing, led to another. I was just using graphics that at that time, like graphic design images so I could get more than 240 characters into a post. I can get a whole bunch more than I could put on the picture.

Mm-hmm. , right? And so that picture and then Jeff Garas of Teach Better Team was like one time he said, Hey, and if you, maybe if you use a selfie video, like I learned about selfie videos, you can put videos on Twitter. Oh, I could get a whole lot more words that way. So I started recording selfie videos and putting them on Twitter on the daily of what I was listening to with hashtag FreshAirAtFive.

That led into, @FreshAirAtFive, the tag, because someone else that I listened to said, Hey Bryon, you should probably go get that tag for all the Instagram and everything. So for branding purposes, have that at your disposal. You might not need it right now, but go get it. And I did that led to me posting with at @FreshAirAtFive on Twitter.

My dailies every. . And then it was two years ago, almost right about now, that Chris Nessi of House of EdTech, he called me out on his podcast and said, Bryon Carpenter, you need to start a podcast. And I said, thought to myself, what am I gonna talk about? Like, I'm just a guy that walks around and I, this is what I do, right?

And I'm like, oh, okay. I gotta get a theme. I gotta get like, you know, Evolving with Gratitude. No, that's Lainie, she's gonna use that in the future. No, it's like things like that. And I'm like, what's the...? How's this gonna work? Right. And he says, you know what? You're already doing it. He met with me over Zoom one Christmas and spent a couple and a half hours with me over Zoom and taught me how to use Audacity, how to take my video chunks and put them into Audacity to get the audio out so that I could build a podcast episode over the course of a week, you know, and post at one time.

You know, I'm super thankful for Chris for being bold and going Carpenter, you gotta do this. Right? And, and it's about it's about us challenging one another to, you know, better things, right? You know, I want to make people better after they've spent time with me, you know, and if they're, they're not better after they've spent time with me than what was I doing?

How was I making an impact on them, right? Yeah. You know, and so the whole thing is that I listen to these podcasts and then I hold my phone up and I record, and I, I say, thank you for what you've done, and I have a grateful heart for that. I reflect on how that's applicable to my space and how I'm growing.

And honestly, it's, it's, My podcast is about me getting up and getting some exercise so that I'm not wasting my day. It's about me learning something and doing professional development that's free and fantastic. And about saying thank you. And you know, encouraging others to listen to podcasts, right?

And so, That's what the whole thing is for me is about. And as you know we just crossed over episode 100 of FreshAirAtFive, which like blows my brain that I've been doing this for like a hundred weeks and there's been only about two or three weeks in that past a hundred that I didn't actually record that week.

Right. Like, . You know, like today I didn't go out for my walk because I can't walk down the sidewalk. There's too much snow I could put my snowshoes on, but that's way too much effort at minus 25 . So I will listen to something and then I'll record to get the content out there and to be connecting and stay current with the podcast that I listen to.

But overall, you know it. And I titled that episode, episode 100. The grateful for the journey. Grateful for this journey, you know, and this journey of podcasting. You know, when we pressed send on that very first podcast of, you know, in January of 2020 with Chris Nessi, he was there with me and he's like, okay, Carpenter pushed the button.

I'm like, ah, I gotta push the button. He goes, you gotta push the button. And so I push the button and you know, it's one little step after another that gets you to where you're at much later, and you're like, wow, that's incredible.

Lainie Rowell: I so appreciate all the shout outs that you just gave there especially to Chris Nessie for getting you to do this.

And I have to say, I consider myself a podcast aficionado, I listen to podcasts every single day. And I listen to so many different podcasts and I just think that your format is so creative and it feels to me like creativity and gratitude is like a through line through your whole life. I mean, you even said earlier it's a personal decision as an adult to be grateful, even though that was already given to you, foundationally from your family.

Mm-hmm. , like you consciously made this choice. And I will say my early twenties was probably when I was the most entitled, the least grateful. And I don't know what it was, but just I felt like the world like owed me some stuff and I was like, everything's so hard. Why is everything so hard? And now I look back and I'm like, oh my gosh, that was so easy.

Like I had it so easy. What will I look back in 20 years and go, oh my gosh, it's so easy now. And so it kind of gave me a different perspective especially when I started doing this deeper dive in gratitude. So, mm-hmm. That I love that you do this podcast. I do listen which is I've heard a lot of your episodes and I just thank you for doing it.

I thank you as not just a podcaster, but as an educator, I am such a fan of learning through this, and you have connected me to other podcasts that I didn't know about. Mm-hmm. . And so you've helped me. And like I said, I'm an aficionado. Like it's not like I've never. I need anyone telling me what podcast to listen to.

The list is long. The library is full. Yes, but you have turned me onto new ones and I am very grateful for that.

Bryon Carpenter: Well, that, that's part of the point, is that, you know what, I can share what I'm learning and it's not about me, it's about other people and what they're doing. And you know, if you can go and listen to Tom Shimmer and be inspired by the things that he's doing and, you know, change your grading practice as a result of that, then go do that, right?

Mm-hmm. , or if you need some tech ideas, you can go listen to Chris Nessie and you know, Eric Geis and Nick Johnson on their podcasts. And so I, I could list a whole bunch here and I'm not...

Lainie Rowell: I know. I'm like, are you trying to sneak in more shout outs. I feel like this whole episode to shout out .

Bryon Carpenter: Yeah, well,

Lainie Rowell: 'not mad at it.

Bryon Carpenter: No, no. So you know what? And it's about making us... we're better together. Right? You know, if, if we can be in community, even in this kind of ethereal, you are somewhere and I'm a different place, but we can connect, and now we're having this conversation today as a result of just me listening to your podcast and you listening to my podcast that you're like, Bryon be on my podcast and I'm like, wow. You know, so it's, it's, it's pretty surreal. It's it's an interesting kind of meta thing. Mm-hmm. that, you know, I think is important. So for me, it's important. I hope people find value in it. I've got one listener that has listened to every episode and you know, she's in Southern Alberta and you know, it's not about the numbers.

I look at my numbers and go, oh, I wish they were bigger, you know, but then that's me just being prideful, right? Going, okay. If I'm making a difference for one person, then that's what matters.

Lainie Rowell: It is. I think I would maybe say it that you, you might, and this is just me. You can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think as a podcaster, we care about the numbers just because we're trying to lift other people up. Mm-hmm. , and we're trying to amplify them as much as possible. So when we have good numbers for an episode, we're like, oh, I got that person to this many people. In your case , I got those podcasts, these people getting a new audience to them. And so it's like, to me it feels very other facing and altruistic and not so much. I mean, yes, there's, there's a little bit of our brain going, did we do it? Did we do it?

Bryon Carpenter: I know, right?

Lainie Rowell: But I'm not making any money on podcasting.

Bryon Carpenter: Nope.

Lainie Rowell: I don't think you've monetized yours.

Bryon Carpenter: Nope.

Lainie Rowell: It is purely a passion project for us both. So I, I think we just want to get the people's voices out there, we wanted, like you said, be better together.

Bryon Carpenter: Yeah, exactly. Yes.

Lainie Rowell: Okay my friend, I know I gotta let you go soon. You are technically on winter break and this will come out in the new year, so I'm excited. And another reason I keep having this podcast going is cuz I just wanna be able to chat with people. So it seems like a great excuse.

Bryon Carpenter: Fantastic.

Lainie Rowell: Come chat with me,

Bryon Carpenter: Exactly, exactly.

Lainie Rowell: You seem so cool online. I wanna talk to you in, in real time, so this has been awesome. I wanna give you an opportunity to give. I mean, I'm gonna try not to be a real hard ass here, excuse my language, but I feel like there've already been a lot of shoutouts, so I'm gonna encourage you to keep it under control.

No, I can't even do that. I can't even say it with a straight face. As many shoutouts as you want. Go for it.

Bryon Carpenter: All right, so my shout outs are actually not podcasters that I've listened to recently or anybody in my recent space, but I'm gonna shout out my former principal Brad Hutchinson, who is also my next door neighbor.

And as I was looking at training to become a teacher. And just wondering what that was. It was a cold October night. I walked over to his house, knocked on his door. Him and his wife invited me in and we sat on the couch for an hour and talked about education and why they do what they do, and like just that open doorness, you know, and he was my boss for 12 years and just, it made a big difference for me.

So that's Brad Hutchinson, and then one more, this is my research colleague. He was the PhD that invited me to organic chemistry lab and was there, he was also the instructor for second year organic chemistry. And I remember sitting around with him talking education speak and you know, like how do we normalize all the grades across all the labs because you know, there were some TAs that cared and others that could c could care less.

And how do we know the good ones from the bad ones? And I'm like, wow, that's a, you're talking to me about that. And I guess you think I'm a good one. I hope so. You know, and so Ian Hunt he's at the University of Calgary and he's teaching organic chemistry there and making a difference in students' lives out.

Lainie Rowell: Oh, that's wonderful. I appreciate all the shout outs and I. See so much in you. And again, that's why I wanted to have you on here. I wanted to chat with you live and get this opportunity to make a more personal connection. Not that we don't have personal connections online, but it just feels like it's an extra touchpoint, if you will.

So I'm, I'm really happy to have had this conversation with you and I thank you for your time. Stay safe in that crazy snow . And you said it was negative 25 celsius. I cannot do the conversion for the Americans.

Bryon Carpenter: That's, that's about, I think, minus 25 Fahrenheit as well. So it's pretty cold.

Lainie Rowell: What?

Bryon Carpenter: It's cold. Yes. Oh, it's snappy outside. So, and I don't even live in like, normal Canada. I live in like the tropical part of Canada, where this is a, this is a, they call this a, an extreme weather event. It's not normal winter, you know, so our normal winter's like, you know, above freezing, so maybe 40 degrees and raining all the time as opposed to snowing. Yes.

Lainie Rowell: I might have to borrow that. That you live in Tropical Canada. That's the best thing I've ever heard.

Bryon Carpenter: Yeah.

Lainie Rowell: That's so awesome, my friend. Okay, well again, thank you for your time. How can people reach out to you? I know you've given the hashtag for FreshAirAtFive, but let's get it all out there again and I'll make sure it's in the show notes too.

Bryon Carpenter: All right, so the hashtag for the podcast is at FreshAirAtFive, all one word, and f i v e at the end. The one that's better is @BryonCar, b r y o n c a r, on Twitter. And it is, that's, I'm on Twitter. I don't spend a lot of time other places. I do have a. website, BryonCarpenter.com. And I occasionally post a blog there, but it's a connection spot if you'd like.

So reach out to me on Twitter. That's the best way. DM me if you want. And yes, that's me.

Lainie Rowell: So you got BryonCarpenter.com. This is where it's helpful that you're, Bryon is spelled a little bit differently.

Bryon Carpenter: Exactly. And that started back in my very first year of teaching, going, I think I could have a website.

That might be important. And I started blended learning as a result of that inadvertently, because I put my content out there for students and they'd be away sick and they'd come back with their work done. And then I'm like, how'd you do that? Well, I went to the website.

I'm like, there you go. So.

Lainie Rowell: That's amazing. Trailblazer, you friend. All right, we'll have a wonderful rest of 2022 and I know people will be listening in 2023, and thank you for those of you listening.

Bryon Carpenter: All right, thanks all.

Lainie Rowell   

If you're grateful for this episode, please be sure to subscribe today. And if you're feeling really thankful, please go to Apple podcasts to submit a review so other educators know the value. One last thing. Please connect on social media using the hashtag #EvolvingWithGratitude to share your gratitude stories.

Episode 42 - Moving Through the World using Magic Words with Guest Marva Hinton

Shownotes:

How can we ReadMore, write more, and share more? Writer, editor, podcaster, and reader, Marva Hinton is always honoring people and their stories! Whether she is editing for Edutopia or hosting her podcast ReadMore, she asks the questions that bring us to a deeper understanding of the world around us.

About Our Guest:

Marva Hinton is a freelance journalist and a contributing editor for Edutopia. She also hosts the ReadMore Podcast, an interview show that primarily features writers of colors. As a freelance journalist, she tends to cover issues regarding marginalized communities, particularly in education. She has a degree in journalism from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and an MFA in creative writing from Antioch University Los Angeles. She’s a big sports fan. She also loves cooking shows and game shows. She lives in South Florida with her husband, their two kids, and their beloved geriatric cat.

Website: readmorepodcast.com

Twitter: @MarvaAHinton
Instagram: @marvaahinton

About Lainie:

Lainie Rowell is an educator, international consultant, podcaster, and TEDx speaker. She is the lead author of Evolving Learner and a contributing author of Because of a Teacher. Her latest book, Evolving with Gratitude, was just released. An experienced teacher and district leader, her expertise includes learner-driven design, community building, online/blended learning, and professional learning. Learn more at linktr.ee/lainierowell.

Twitter - @LainieRowell 

Instagram - @LainieRowell

Evolving with Gratitude, the book, is now available! Purchase here! 

You can also get bulk orders for your staff (10 copies or more) at a discounted price! Just fill out the form linked below and someone will get back to you ASAP! bit.ly/ewgbulkdiscount

Transcript:

Lainie Rowell  

Welcome to the Evolving with Gratitude Podcast. I'm your host, Lainie Rowell and I'm thankful you're here. Let's talk about ways to bring gratitude into our learning communities to nurture relationships, improve well being, and activate learning.

Lainie Rowell: Friends, this is someone who I have actually known for years ... we're approaching years, no, I think it's been years. Two years. We'll say. Two years.

Marva Hinton: I think that's right. Yes.

Lainie Rowell: And the first time I have spoken live to her is right now. And I am so excited to welcome Marva Hinton. Marva. Thank you for being here.

Marva Hinton: Oh, thank you for having me, Lainie. I'm so excited to be here with you.

Lainie Rowell: I cannot wait to tell people how we know each other, and I really wanna spend a lot of time digging into who you are cause you're so fascinating to me. It's no mystery. I tell people all the time, my guests are the people that I wanna connect with so I wanna talk to you and I know people wanna hear you, so this is very exciting for me. Okay, so here comes the intro the little bio, and then I'd love for you to fill in the blanks. So Marva Hinton is a freelance journalist and a contributing editor for Edutopia.

Hint: that's how we know each other. She also hosts the ReadMore podcast and interview show that primarily features writers of color. I am a listener of that podcast, and I just wanna really quickly say, you are a very thoughtful and caring host.

The way you honor your guests is aspirational for me. I hear you, and I want to be like that because you, you're, you're getting their stories out and you're also asking these really carefully crafted questions. So I'm a listener. I'm a fan. I just adore you. Marva, what did I not get to say about you that you want people to know?

Marva Hinton: Okay. What do I want people to know? Well, we could talk a little bit about my background. You talked about how you love the podcast and I so appreciate you listening and that means so much coming from you. You are a wonderful podcaster and you are so kind when you interview people and Sort of what stood out to me when I first met you, because as you mentioned, I'm a contributing editor with Edutopia, and you've written for Edutopia many times and I edited your work many times, is that you are always just so kind and open, like during the collaborative process, which really what writing is, and I, it just stood out to me like every little thing you're just, oh, thank you for that.

And I just, it really took me aback because. The way you did that, it just makes it stand out and it's such a lovely process working with you. You are a wonderful writer and a wonderful podcaster. My experience in podcasting probably comes from when I used to work in radio for many, many years. I worked in radio news and I'm used to talking to people like that in a broadcasting format and the most important thing I've learned is listening. Because when you're new at that, like when I first started out, you know, you have your list of questions and we're just gonna go through my list of questions and you miss things because while they're talking, you're looking at your next question and I have to get this out.

And they might have said, . Just for an example, today I interviewed a woman who mentioned that she was in a graduate program in a particular city and she ended up leaving because there was a serial killer in that city and she started feeling uncomfortable. Now this is not what we were talking about.

And I just had to stop. I'm sorry. Not my next question, but I'm sorry. There was a serial killer there and we got this long talk about that, and it was just, So much comes from listening. And I, I feel like that's where I picked that up. I am the child of an educator. My mom was a teacher, and I think that's why I have such a heart for teachers.

I had two of my aunts were also educators, and so I grew up around them and hearing that kind of talk and I even for myself, I knew I wanted to be a journalist, but my very first job out of college after two years I was working in radio. It was actually a TV radio. after two years they said, and we don't wanna be in the radio business anymore.

All of you guys can go. So we were all laid off and it took me a while to find another job. My mom was like, oh, you should apply to be a substitute. I have tried that, that didn't work. I, I found a job listing at a private school. They were looking for someone. It was like pre-K up to eighth grade.

They're looking for someone. I applied, did the interview. I got the job, and I worked there actually for nine months. And it was a very rewarding experience. You know, they were asking me, would you like to go back to school so you can be a full teacher? Because I was actually a paraprofessional and I said, you know, I, I don't, I don't think so.

I thought about it for a while, but I said, that's not really, I don't feel like that's my calling. But it gave me such an appreciation and the kids are wonderful and I think about them often now, like, oh, they would be so old now. I wonder what they're doing. .

Lainie Rowell: I know I have kids on Facebook that I taught second grade and they're getting married and they're like, graduating law school.

Marva Hinton: Oh my goodness.

Lainie Rowell: I'm not trying to take credit for the law school thing. It was just the first one that came to my mind. So there's so much. , I'm like trying to process through all this. This is, this for me is the hardest part about being a podcast host is cause I am listening and I'm so present and I wanna have this conversation with you.

I also have to a little bit think about like where we're gonna go next, which isn't the hardest part for me because...

Marva Hinton: I understand. It is not easy.

Lainie Rowell: ...I wanna talk about all these things. So first of all, I wanna say I would like Edutopia to actually list the editor on the article.

Marva Hinton: Very few publications that do that, the only one that comes to mind right now is Bloomberg. They do that.

Lainie Rowell: I think it's should be a thing.

Marva Hinton: You know, I don't mind being in the background though. I'm happy to be the person in the background and let the writer shine. Even in doing my job, like at the end of the day, I want the writer to feel like this is still my work.

It's just been polished up a little bit because I don't wanna go in and into where I'm doing so much that it becomes my article. It's about taking a step back and letting the other person shine.

Lainie Rowell: I think that's a harder thing to do. So that's why I love you so much. And so a little behind the scenes, by the way I have been so blessed to have a number of Edutopia articles published over the last couple years, but they don't all get published.

I'm gonna reveal, like I I do get declined. Some people think they all get published. They do not. But I will say I CC you on every pitch because that's my way of, like, this has worked so far. Now I'm revealing this, and maybe next time it won't work out this way. But that's my way of being like, I want Marva to be the editor on this.

If you accept it, please make sure I get to work with Marva. So I don't know if that's actually been working or if I've just been incredibly lucky, blessed, whatever you wanna say. But I'm gonna keep doing it until someone gets mad about it.

Marva Hinton: Well, usually what happens with Edutopia is you are assigned a person like, you know, we were first time we're assigned and they will just let you keep working with that person because you know, you build up a relationship.

Yeah. And that makes for better working together. So usually. I will keep my people, you know, I see my writers unless sometimes, oh, they feel like I have too much work and they say, oh, we're gonna give so-and-so this story, but you can get them back later. So I, as long as I can get them back later, I, I understand.

But I, you get that relationship and you don't wanna stop working with that person. You know, I get excited when I get your pitches in the email, like, oh, Lainie has another new idea that's gonna be great. You know, that type of thing.

Lainie Rowell: You're so kind. Well, and Steph Rothstein was who I wrote my first article with and you know, there's like a back channeling happening.

Steph's like, I put the pitch in, Hey, check your email. We got accepted. I'm like, yay. And then she's like, We got Marva. She's so awesome. And I'm like, okay, perfect. Like this is it. And then you were such a delight to work with. So wonderful. And just like you do on your podcast, honoring other people's voices.

I know you don't need the credit. I just wanna shine the light on you because probably I'm projecting on you because I need a lot of affirmation.

Marva Hinton: Everybody needs, everybody needs positive affirmation, right?

Lainie Rowell: That's true. Okay. Let's get into your definition of gratitude, and then I think we'll get back to some of the things I wanna hear more about, like all the things that make you amazing.

So how would you describe what gratitude means to you?

Marva Hinton: Well, I see it as, I hope this doesn't sound very hokey, but I see it as really a way of living, a way of moving through the world and realizing that it's not about you, you know, being more about we than me and just the basics. You know, I have two young kids.

I have an eight-year-old and a five-year-old, and I am teaching them some of the things, you know, that I learned from my mom when I was growing up about just the basics, Lainie. I'm not talking about anything fancy. I'm talking about just simply saying Please and thank you. Yeah. You know, just. , even though when I was growing up, as I'm sure a lot of people had, I was told those were the magic words and I really didn't understand exactly what that meant as a child.

But you know, as adult, you see, because it opens doors, you know, just expressing gratitude even in the smallest ways. I was recently shopping. I live in South Florida and I'm certainly not going to disparage where I live. I love the weather here, it's great. But the particular area where I live in is not really known for customer service. I'll just say that. I mean, everybody who lives here knows this. And so I was shopping and I bought something and after the lady's like, there you go. That's what she said. , when she was handing my bag, like, there you go. And I was just like, that is so, such a weird thing to say, but you know, , I was like, okay, thanks.

I walk out. Yeah. And, and just those two basic things change how people feel about a situation. So for me it's about always expressing gratitude in everything. When someone does something for you, no matter how small it was, thanking them because they didn't have to do it, you know, you didn't have to invite me on this show.

So just taking the time to say, oh, thank you so much for this opportunity. And also for me, it's also about paying it forward. So if someone has done something for me, you know, I'm thanking them in the moment and I'm also figuring out, well, how can I do something similar for someone else or do something else for them down the line. And I think if we all work through life that way, that things would be so much better. I know it's a part of our culture, I guess, in the United States to be very individualistic and, you know, I'm doing this and I'm, and yes, but there's a but. Yes. But you know, you wouldn't, unless some people helped you out along the way, you wouldn't be there.

And it's important to remember that for everyone.

Lainie Rowell: I love what you said, moving through the world as I, I kind of interpreted it. I don't think this is exactly how you said it... this is where you should probably edit me, . Feel free to send notes. Marva. The moving through the world, like I kind of heard you say moving , through the world as we, not just me, and not that it's not me sometimes, but it's not always me.

Marva Hinton: Right.

Lainie Rowell: And the checker saying, there you go, that that is going to be with me for a while. Usually that's not it. That's not in the customer service handbook. I don't think.

Marva Hinton: No, you know, thanks. Thanks for shopping with us whatever. And they're just like, there you go.

Lainie Rowell: I'm savoring that. I appreciate how you said magic words. Honestly, I've spent a long time focusing on gratitude and I never really thought about how we always growing up or a lot of us growing up heard those are the magic words and it's kind of like when you hear something so much it, it loses its meaning.

And so that was just kind of a natural response that my family would say. Say please and thank you. Those are the magic words, and you start to , not pay attention to it, but if I really step back and go, what did they mean by those are the magic words? It's like, oh, and this is my interpretation. You tell me if you think of something different.

But they're magic words because they are connecting people in a very special way to make them feel seen, heard, known, and valued. Does that...

Marva Hinton: Yes, that definitely tracks as what I was thinking, you know my husband and I are always trying to instill these things in our kids. Just that it's so important to, to do.

I mean my. Son just turned five back in November and we had a birthday party for him, and he got all these nice gifts and I was thinking after the party, we didn't open them in front of everyone. I don't really like to do that just because, you know, you can be kind of a, a, a situation that can make people feel uncomfortable.

Lainie Rowell: Comparison happening, right?

Marva Hinton: Yes. So we don't want that to happen. Yeah. So we waited to everyone at the left and then we, had him open and we took a picture of him with each gift. And then we sent off a text. Oh, thank you so much. He's so looking for, he loves dinosaurs. He's so looking forward to playing with this T-Rex. It's great.

And, oh, thank you so much for this and that. We did it for every single one and, and texted it. I mentioned that because, . You know, sometimes, you know, I kind of grew up with, oh, you send a very nice written thank you note, and , I think that's still a wonderful thing to do. Mm-hmm. , but you know, we're all moving again through the world.

We're all so, so busy now. It's like, just, just do something. Just they love the picture and everybody responded. Oh wow, that's so nice. I'm so glad he likes this and blah, blah, blah. And it was a small thing. I took a picture, I sent a text. , but you could tell from the responses I got that it really meant something to those people and it was also showing him a lesson.

You know, when people do things for us, we always find a way to thank them, always.

Lainie Rowell: That's so beautiful because you're teaching your kids to really be present and do it sooner rather than later with specificity and authenticity rather than we do this because Emily Post says we should do this.

Marva Hinton: Right. And it's good, like you're saying in the moment, like, we, we had the party at a park and we stayed there, we did this. And it's just to say, I know you wanna go play, but these people took time out of their day. They came out, they selected a special gift for you. . You know, Acknowledge that and make them feel good also, because what would the party be without our friends showing up to support us?

Lainie Rowell: Absolutely. Oh, that's so sweet. It's a modeling and a teaching and it's not, a shaming, it's understanding what's developmentally appropriate, right? And that was one of the fun things about writing the book when I had at the time, seven year old and a 10 year old, or, you know, somewhere abouts there. , they're about three years apart. Understanding that one was much closer to be able to truly live in gratitude versus one that was still acquiring those positive skills that would lead to a deeper gratitude. And so, yes, we're gonna model, we're gonna teach, we're gonna encourage in the positive ways that you do, and that's all going to impact how they get to it later in like the truest way.

Marva Hinton: Oh, definitely. And while you were talking, I just thought about another thing that we try to, to model and do is when people aren't expecting things. I think that is so nice , to send someone on a little note and say, oh, the way you, you know, did such and such, that was so wonderful and I, I thank you for you know, helping me be a part of that or sharing that with me.

People love nice surprises or, you know, most people, you know, like a nice note or, you know, a nice email or even a, a text just to say, oh, I, I, you know, I got such and such. That was so wonderful. Thank you for including me. I think so many times we get notifications about things that sometimes they're not so nice that it's nice to do that as well to do just a little nice note just because.

Lainie Rowell: And I think people don't always know what we appreciate about them. And so like you're saying, when you take the time to, it doesn't have to be a, a grand gesture, but those little things and you just say, Hey, I noticed this cause that's the first step in gratitude. You gotta notice it.

A lot of times people are taken aback that they didn't even know that was being noticed. At least that's my experience.

Marva Hinton: Yes, I've definitely had that. I've had someone reach out to me and thank me for something and I hadn't even thought about it, or I certainly didn't know that they noticed.

And, I appreciated it so much and it really helped us on the cases I'm thinking of to become really good friends because I didn't, like, I had no idea that, that, that she was watching and appreciating the way I did this. And so it. . I think it's a good way to connect people to, you know, have a genuine connection with someone is, and don't be shy about it.

Like when you do notice, cause sometimes you're thinking, are they gonna think I'm weird, , do I need to do this? But I found most of the time people really do appreciate it when you, you know, it doesn't take that long, especially if you're sending them an email or it doesn't take that long at all. And it brightens their day, which is another good thing to do.

Lainie Rowell: I find that even people who maybe don't know how to take the compliment or the thank you, and they might even try and deflect a little bit, but they actually still really appreciate it. They just don't always know what to do with it. .

Marva Hinton: Right. Especially since it's so unusual. I think that, so you don't know how to react.

Lainie Rowell: Exactly. So let's talk more about your life in general and how, you know, you did such a beautiful job sharing how you're doing this with your family, but what other ways are you experiencing expressing gratitude in your life?

And you can talk about it through your podcast, through your work with Edutopia, like whatever way you wanna take this.

Marva Hinton: Well, let's see. Let's talk about the podcast for a minute. The ReadMore podcast, as you mentioned is an interview show with authors of color. And I have talked to some really big names sometimes on the show.

But what I really like though is talking to someone who is a new author, just making their debut and I love the chance to share their story and bring them on and let them talk about it in a way that I hope will attract new readers for them, and it's just for me, it's kind of a way to say, you know, thank you for writing, because books have always been so important to me.

I was always a very big reader, you know, as a child. I grew up in a small town in North Carolina and there was a very small, a library there, and I had a library card from a very early age, and then I was. Not as I had read everything there, but I wanted to see more. So it was like the next town over was a bit bigger.

So I got a library card there and I, I could have lived in that place, you know, I loved exploring and just going in with no idea about what I was gonna check out. A lot of the times just, I'm just gonna look, you know, I'm just gonna see what's here. And I had a very wild idea I guess I'll say as a child that I could read all of the books in the library and I was going to start at the A's and I was, you know in the fiction section. And of course, you know, I didn't accomplish that. I didn't realize that, how unrealistic that goal was, . But I did start and I was just, amazed. Like I said, I could have lived in that place and I feel like authors have given me so much that I see this as being able to just give a little bit back. I could never, ever repay them for everything that they gave me as a child, but to, to just try to do a little something that's what the show is about. And also you mentioned you wanted to have people on you wanna connect with. These are people, I just really enjoy their work and so I want them to come on so we can talk about this. I mean, otherwise, you know, how am I gonna get to talk to them?

Lainie Rowell: Like you said, you've had some big names on, I find that authors are very approachable and that they typically will say yes if they can say yes. You know, obviously they don't get paid to be on a podcast.

So I love how you said you graduated to the bigger library and by the way, this is how I know we're kindred spirits. cause I would've probably been like, start with a . Just go in order. There's, there's no other way to do this other than just go alphabetical .

Marva Hinton: I never got outta the A's.

So my goal to read all the books, it was just, like I said, when you're a kid, you don't realize.

Lainie Rowell: Well, what you do with this podcast is not only do you give a platform for these amazing authors, and like you said, you've got some big names, but you also have, you know, people with debut novels and new, new authors.

What I love about it is at this point in my life, I am not a fiction writer, but I have become more interested in writing and it's become a passion of mine. And to get inside the head of a fiction writer is really fun and recently you had Ayana Lloyd Bono on. And I loved her talking about writing villains.

Marva Hinton: That's fun for the conversation because and I never like to give spoilers away on the show, but there is, in her book ,When We Were Birds, there is a villain who is just, something else.

I guess I'll just say , and I wanted to know about that process of writing this person, and she had such a good take on that. I remember she said, you know, a villain has a, a mother too.

Lainie Rowell: Yes.

Marva Hinton: And, you know, has a wife or someone they're taking care of, so they can do these things that we all do and then they can also do some incredibly evil things, and they don't have much of a conscience, you know about doing. So it makes them really fun. It's very freeing to write about someone like that.

Lainie Rowell: It was so fascinating listening to you two talk about that, and I remember her saying, you know, a monster is still a monster. It was just really fun to hear because as someone who writes non-fiction, I don't have that part tapped in as far as my writing. I don't think about like, well, what could this person do? And so it was so fun. Like it's very enjoyable. So it gives me an appreciation for another style of writing that I don't happen to do. Maybe someday I would that is not a commitment device. I don't plan on writing fiction, but, at some point in my life I could. And so it's, it's just really fun to hear. It gives me a new appreciation. I don't read as much fiction as I do non-fiction, but I have actually added a lot of books from your podcast to my wishlist because you get me interested in it, you know, you and the author with no spoilers, but it's like, Ooh, now I wanna know about this villain. Like, this sounds interesting.

Marva Hinton: Yes. Yes it is. And, for those of us who really like to read, it's, you want to be in the writer's head, and I, I try to ask questions about that and see how they come up with these, the characters and how they mesh the story together because there's so many little threads when you're writing, especially a, a, a novel and it's how do you pull everything together? I love talking to them about that.

Lainie Rowell: I thank you for your podcast because I consider that a very public display of gratitude that you're giving this platform to authors, always bringing these authors of different levels of experience and expertise and just sharing their stories is, to me, a very public sign of gratitude.

And then we get to benefit as listeners. So thank you for that.

Marva Hinton: Oh, well you're welcome. I appreciate your gratitude for that because it's definitely a labor of love.

Lainie Rowell: So you have this amazing podcast, the ReadMore podcast, and that's a way to amplify people. Through your work with Edutopia, you're also amplifying, supporting, you know, giving other s a platform.

Tell us a little bit about kind of how that came to be and your experiences there.

Marva Hinton: Well, Lainie, it is such an interesting story because I never applied for my position at Edutopia. I got a direct message on Twitter from Tom Berger, he, he's my boss at Edutopia, and he said, would you be interested in doing some editing work for Edutopia?

And my mom passed away unexpectedly right before the pandemic started. And when he reached out to me, I was still very deep in my grief and I just couldn't even think about a position. I said, well, you know, that sounds really interesting and can you get back to me in a couple of weeks?

We got back together in a couple of weeks. We set up time for an interview and I, again, doing everything I had to do because of life. You know, we experience a loss, but, you know, it's like the world stops for us, but it keeps going for everyone else. So I'm you know, taking my daughter to school.

My son, he was not in school at that point, and Tom and I talked, set up a time for an interview. He told me, he found me through an article that I wrote. Cause as we mentioned, I am a freelance journalist. He found an article I wrote for School Library Journal and he read it and he said, oh, that's the kind of thing that we write at Edutopia. And I guess he must have looked me up or look me up on LinkedIn because I mentioned on there of course, and I do editing work and so we settled on time for this interview. That morning I remember thinking I'm gonna have to do this interview cause it was by phone. I live in Florida, Edutopia is based in California. I planned my day around this interview and I thought, okay, this interview's gonna come in the afternoon. It's gonna be before I pick up my daughter from school. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to, you know, strap my son in his car seat.

We're gonna go to school early because he always fell asleep in the car. He will fall asleep and I will sit in my car and do the interview while he is sleeping. Okay. And so I was supposed to call Tom at the time for the interview. I thought about it that morning as I was getting my daughter ready to go for school.

I had been thinking about it in the days leading up to it, you know, because when you do an interview by phone, you can kind of prepare more. You're like, oh, I'll have these little notes so I can remember to say these things and blah, blah, blah. Like super prepared, but then that afternoon, I don't know what happened.

I go pick up my daughter. I completely forgot it. I've never told a story before. I completely forgot the interview. I was supposed to call. I completely forgot. I went and picked up my daughter. I did everything I was supposed to do except call Tom. And so I get home and it's probably been, I don't know, it might have been 30 minutes to an hour after I was supposed to call.

I don't remember all the specifics, but then Tom calls me and when he called me, he was almost like he forgot I was supposed to call him, and he was just talking to me. And , at this point, I remember I was sitting in my living room. I didn't have anything. I, I don't remember.

Maybe the kids were upstairs playing. I was downstairs and I guess my husband, he might have been working. I, I don't remember him being there. So none of the nice environment I had planned for this, none of it. I completely forgot. Like I said, I've never told a story publicly. Tom doesn't know this.

He'll find out listening to this podcast and yet we still had a good conversation. and we had it, and I think he, you know, he might have even apologized for calling me late. I don't really remember how that part went down, but I do remember that I totally messed up. Like I did not do what I was supposed to do, and I, I just blamed, even though some time had passed, I was still in this fog of grief.

Lainie Rowell: Yeah.

Marva Hinton: And , we talked, we had a good interview, then you have to take an editing test. I did that and that went well. And I ended up, you know, being hired on as a contractor to do editing work. And I just feel like I. That wasn't because of anything that, you know, I have done. Like it was all, you know, he approached me out of the blue.

I wasn't even familiar really with Edutopia Then, you know, this man just reached out to me on Twitter and I forgot the interview. I did like all the stuff you're not supposed to do like that should have just totally ruined my chances, you know? And I just feel like, I don't know, sometimes you these things out there. You know, , I'm a person of faith and I, I believe that all of these, these good things that have happened to me really aren't because of anything that I have done to deserve them. I feel like it's, you know, I am being blessed and it's like, you know, God's grace and mercy that, you know just shines on me.

And that's why these things are happening. And because, like I said, I did everything to blow that. I mean, I could see somebody saying, you know, she was supposed to call. She didn't, what's wrong with her? And I also feel like the, the work I do at Edutopia, honors my mom, who was an educator, and as I mentioned, I have two aunts who were educators as well, and it honors them and it's just a privilege to get to work with these amazing teachers who are sacrificing so much for their students. In what is often a, a job where you don't get the appreciation that you should. Especially recently I mean, in the past, it was a position that people really revered and looked up to. And now, unfortunately, you see in some corners, You know, teachers are under attack and I, I hate to see that, but I love the fact that I can work with teachers and amplify their voices.

Teachers who are doing amazing things in the classroom who show such love for their students, and work in not always the best conditions, but they still go back day after day for the, the children. I, I feel really blessed that I get to work with people who are like that.

Lainie Rowell: First let me say I am sorry to hear about your mom.

It almost feels like there was some guiding to Edutopia.

Marva Hinton: I know, I, I feel like that too because, you know, my mom didn't get to live to see me doing this work, but I think she would really be proud and get a kick out of the fact that I am working with educators every day.

Lainie Rowell: That's a beautiful legacy. I love that connection between you two. And I have to say, it's really funny that , I, I love your story and, and. I almost wonder if it was all meant to be that way, because sometimes when we're like super focused and like, I'm gonna get this, I'm gonna get this. Like, we're almost too much. It was kind of like, so much had happened and you're just like, well, this is just gonna be, what's gonna be.

Marva Hinton: I mean, I did have a lot of high hopes, like, oh, I, I really messed this up, but I'm gonna do my best and I'm gonna do the interview and it felt more like just a conversation versus, oh, you know, we're doing an interview. That type of thing. Yeah. Maybe it didn't make me more relaxed, but like I said, I was just, I, I. Just in that fog, you know, it's like going through the motions, doing everything I have to do because, you know, I am a mom and I have these responsibilities.

But I, still felt like I was in that cloud and that's the only way I can explain like totally forgetting that.

Lainie Rowell: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. And at that point it's like you're grieving your mom and you've got young kids and you've just got so much going on in your life and you're like, well, I missed it. So that's done, and then, and then he calls you and you're like, well, let's just see how this goes. I'll do my best.

Marva Hinton: It was totally like that. And it's just the whole experience is so odd. Like, you know, I didn't know about the job, I didn't apply for it. It approached me and it was, it's, it's been a very good experience.

And you know, for any educators who are listening, I do encourage you if you're doing something in your classroom that is really resonating with kids and you think your fellow educator, Would like to know about it please send a pitch to Edutopia and get your story out there. Let other people know about what you're doing.

That's so cool. So maybe they can, you know, replicate it and do the same thing with their students.

Lainie Rowell: That is the beautiful thing. Edutopia has quite a reach and I think that's a big criteria for the pitches that are selected, is that it's stuff that other educators can implement in their classroom, even if it's a tweak or a , remix of it.

Marva Hinton: Right. Totally Lainie, that's what it's about. It's not about, oh, you should do this. It's a, yeah, why don't you try this? Yeah, it's working for this educator.

It might work for you. You know? And I think that attitude helps to draw people to Edutopia because we try not to come in and say, oh, you're doing something wrong, or, no, no. It's like, maybe you could try this if you're having this issue with your students. You know, maybe, maybe it's, whether it's classroom management or just building relationships.

You know, why don't you try this? and, and see where it goes. It's been very successful for this teacher who's just like you, you know? We also, of course, work with administrators and consultants and, and people who work in those fields as well, but it's mainly, it's one educator talking to another educator about what's working.

And we always try to stress, you know, please take a conversational tone in your article because we want it to be just like, it's you're having a conversation with another teacher.

Lainie Rowell: Yes. Working with you and the rest of the Edutopia team has taught me a lot. One of the big ones that relates to something you just said is, I have stopped using the word "should".

And my most read article on Edutopia was about the three SEL practices you "can" do every day. Cause my original title was, You "Should" Do Every Day, you know, the Welcome Inclusion, the Engaging Strategies, and the Optimistic Closure, and that "should" word can be so triggering.

Because it's like, if you're not doing this, you're less than. That wasn't my intent using the word should. And when that got edited, I was like, oh my gosh, that is a loaded word. Why did I not see that when I wrote that title?

Marva Hinton: Yes. I think a lot of people do things like that, not intentionally, as you mentioned.

, can have the effect of making someone feel like, oh, you know, I'm not doing this. I'm messing up. And we never want anyone to feel like they are messing up because they're not doing X, Y, or Z. It's just, you know, this is something you could try. It's been successful for me. If you wanna know, you know, something you can try in your classroom, you maybe give this a try. It's a suggestion. You know, it's never a you must do this. No, it's always give it a try.

Lainie Rowell: I know I need to let you go. You've got so much going on. You wear many hats and I am just, I'm really sad right now to end this conversation.

Marva Hinton: So honestly, we have to figure out how we can talk again. And I'm looking forward to you writing again. I know you're very busy. But your articles are always so wonderful because the things you talk about you know, obviously Edutopia is for educators. Yeah. But they're always takeaways, whether you're an educator or not really. If you are working with other people, if you have children and you want to know about how you can build them up, like your work is wonderful for that. So it's not just for educators.

Lainie Rowell: You're so kind.

Marva Hinton: ,

I appreciate you having me on the show.

It's, it's really been a pleasure. I was very nervous. I have to tell you, I was very nervous to come on. I don't know why. But I was just nervous. Like, what am I, what am I gonna say? Because I know you do primarily have educators on, and I'm not an educator but this has been a great experience and I so appreciate you inviting me.

Lainie Rowell: I disagree. I think you are an educator. You earned your strives being a substitute, a paraprofessional, you are an educator to me and to many, you have taught me so much. Once an educator, always an educator in my mind.

Marva Hinton: Well, thank you very much. You know, funny you mentioned that when I was a kid, like so many other kids, you know, and also with my mom being when I just knew I was going to to be a teacher somehow, and so maybe I am, somehow educating with what I do now.

Lainie Rowell: You are. You absolutely are. You make me better with every article I get to write with you, and so thank you for that. I'm gonna give you a chance to do a quick shout out and then please tell us how people can connect with you. I'll put it in the show notes too.

Marva Hinton: Okay, well I am on Twitter @MarvaAHinton. You can find me there. I'm also on Instagram, although I admit I do not post very much. I'm just not as much of a visual person.

So I am on there at the same handle @MarvaAHinton. You can also find me on LinkedIn if you'd like to connect that way. I guess those are the main ways. You can listen to the ReadMore podcast, wherever you get your podcasts.

Lainie Rowell: People are gonna wanna connect with you. Is there anyone you wanna give a quick little shout out to? I think we've given some shout outs as we've gone. I think we both wanna shout out to Tom.

Marva Hinton: Yes, please. I was thinking of that. We have to shout out Tom, you know, Tom is just a wonderful guy to work for and I've had such a great experience and I've learned so much from him. So definitely give a shout out to Tom Berger .

Also, if this is okay I'd also like to give a shout out to my husband Derek. He is so supportive of everything I do. Lainie, I cannot tell you just how much that means. Even when I feel like, oh, I'm not doing anything, or, oh, that wasn't so great.

He's always like, no, you're doing a great job. Keep it up. And just that little thing really it keeps me going. So I definitely wanna shout out to my husband, Derek.

Lainie Rowell: Well, and I agree with Derek. You are awesome. You do so much. And I hope you don't take this as an insult, but I know you're a little, self-effacing as far as all you do, but we see it, and so I think it can be grateful to God and grateful to ourselves.

Is that fair?

Marva Hinton: Yeah. You know, I think that is fair and I don't want it to come across as I'm saying it's never about you. Cause we know sometimes we do have to take time for ourselves and that's very important and we you know, should celebrate our accomplishments. But I, I just feel like so many times it just goes a little bit too far.

And you do forget the people who helped you out along the way. I never want to forget those people.

Lainie Rowell: You don't. Everything I see you definitely don't. So thank you for being here, my friend. This has been so amazing. I have been looking forward to chatting with you live for so long, and I hope we get to collaborate on something very soon.

Thank you for your time and thank you all for listening.

Marva Hinton: Thank you, Lainie.

Lainie Rowell   

If you're grateful for this episode, please be sure to subscribe today. And if you're feeling really thankful, please go to Apple podcasts to submit a review so other educators know the value. One last thing. Please connect on social media using the hashtag #EvolvingWithGratitude to share your gratitude stories.

Episode 41 - Choosing Our Lens Each Day with Guest Tom Murray

Shownotes:

What lens did you choose today? In this heartfelt episode, Tom shares how we can be intentional about recognizing great things that are happening without minimizing the real challenges we have in our world around mental health and the real struggles people are facing. Tom encourages us and inspires us while also lovingly challenging us to show our care, show our concern, show our love, and be intentional about doing so.

Blog post mentioned in the show: EVERY DAY...SHE RAN TO YOU thomascmurray.com/blog/rantoyou

About Our Guest:

About Our Guest:

Tom serves as the Director of Innovation for Future Ready Schools®, a project of All4Ed, located in Washington, D.C. He has testified before the United States Congress and has worked alongside that body, the US Senate, the White House, the US Department of Education and state departments of education, corporations, and school districts throughout the country to implement student-centered learning while helping to lead Future Ready Schools® and Digital Learning Day. An ASCD best-selling author, Murray serves as a regular conference keynote, was named the "2018 National/Global EdTech Leader of the Year," by EdTech Digest, the "2017 Education Thought Leader of the Year," one of "20 to Watch" by NSBA in 2016, and the "Education Policy Person of the Year" by the Academy of Arts and Sciences in 2015. His best-selling book, Learning Transformed: 8 Keys to Designing Tomorrow’s Schools, Today, co-authored with Eric Sheninger and published by ASCD, was released in June 2017. His most recent book, Personal & Authentic: Designing Learning Experiences that Impact a Lifetime, was released in October of 2019.

Website: thomascmurray.com

Twitter: @thomascmurray Instagram: @thomascmurrayedu

About Lainie:

Lainie Rowell is an educator, international consultant, podcaster, and TEDx speaker. She is the lead author of Evolving Learner and a contributing author of Because of a Teacher. Her latest book, Evolving with Gratitude, was just released. An experienced teacher and district leader, her expertise includes learner-driven design, community building, online/blended learning, and professional learning. Learn more at linktr.ee/lainierowell.

Twitter - @LainieRowell 

Instagram - @LainieRowell

Evolving with Gratitude, the book, is now available! Purchase here! 

You can also get bulk orders for your staff (10 copies or more) at a discounted price! Just fill out the form linked below and someone will get back to you ASAP! bit.ly/ewgbulkdiscount

Transcript:

Lainie Rowell  

Welcome to the Evolving with Gratitude Podcast. I'm your host, Lainie Rowell and I'm thankful you're here. Let's talk about ways to bring gratitude into our learning communities to nurture relationships, improve well being, and activate learning.

Lainie Rowell  

Hello, friends, this is an exciting day. I have a longtime friend, Tom Murray. Hey, Tom, how are you today?

Tom Murray  

Lainie, it's good to see you. And I loved seeing you recently in your home state of California. So thanks for having me on.

Lainie Rowell  

Well, I'm very happy you're here. And I think I surprised you adequately... Our mutual friend, Jerry Almendarez invited me to the Future Ready event. And I just kind of showed up.

Tom Murray  

Well, there I was, I was standing on a table. And I hear like, "Hey, friend", and there you were. So yes, it's good to see you again.

Lainie Rowell  

Yes, I had it in my mind that I was going to try and be like, I'm from facilities. I need you to step down, sir. But I just I couldn't get into character in time. And I just wanted to give you a big hug. Anyway. So good. Glad to be here as well. And now can I ask you because I just, it would not be a podcast with the two of us if I didn't bring up when you landed in California and you got your rental car. Was there any events that happened?

Tom Murray  

Of course you have to. So Lainie wants to tell the story of me getting pulled over on my way to CUE the chaos of it. All right.

Lainie Rowell  

I wasn't gonna go there. Yeah, I mean, it was years ago, and...

Tom Murray  

There were no tickets involved. And we were good. Lainie had to do my introduction the next day, and she happens to share that with everybody that an almost criminal was about to present. 

Lainie Rowell  

Yeah, I mean, criminal seems strong. But you know, I got to meet your lovely wife, Tammy. And I think Did she reveal that or did you offer it up? I cannot remember. But it was a wonderful story to introduce you with.

Tom Murray  

I do not remember. Yeah. Thank you for that. 

Lainie Rowell  

All right, well, I'm going to do a quick intro of you, Tom, it will be as I say insufficient. And I would love for you to add to it, anything that you would like to. So Thomas C. Murray, as we call him, Tom Murray is the Director of Innovation for Future Ready. He is the author of Personal and Authentic and other books, feel free to talk about any and all. Keynote speaker, former school and district leader. I mean, the list is long, the resume is impressive. And, Tom, what would you like to add to that?

Tom Murray  

Well, first of all, thank you for that appreciate you having me on the podcast. And the other thing that I will say to that that is most important in my world is dad of two. So Father of 12, soon to be teenager, soon to be 13 year old girl in seventh grade, and father of a third grade boy who's nine completely different kids. But bring me the passion keep me grounded, and really are my why for this work. And so Paisley and Caden and I want to give them a shout out.

Lainie Rowell  

I love that. And one of the things that Tammy and I talked about when I first met her was that we're kind of leading these parallel lives as far as we have an oldest girl, youngest boy, they're almost exactly the same age apart. And if I haven't met your twi, but if the pictures on Facebook reveal anything, I feel like the personalities are also a match.

Tom Murray  

Absolutely very similar. Very, you see, if I just had one, I'd be like, Look how, look how perfect this child turned out. But then on the second one, I'm like, I need a help book because I have no idea what I'm doing for this child. But you know what, Lainie, it does from an education. And what's fascinating for me is, here's here's these two kids growing up, you know, seeing a grown up in the same household and completely different personalities, completely different learners, just completely different needs and individuals. One I'm like, Paisley, you've got a 19 out of 20. It's okay, like, take a breath, it's fine. The other one, I'm like, yes, there's a thing called fourth grade, and you'll have to go next year, right? Like totally different worlds. And if they're gonna be that different, even in my own household, how different when you put 25 kids from different household, different parenting structures, different backgrounds, different religions, different cultures, how different they're going to be in the classroom, and how do we ultimately respect that?

Lainie Rowell  

I appreciate that. It is from an asset based that we go, you know, like, this is what I see in this child. And this is what I see in this child. And again, I think that's somewhere where we can relate to each other just having kids who have very different gifts. My son is actually quite the charmer. He is not as compliance driven as my daughter is and I don't want to impose that on your kids. But I just remember being in like, Trader Joe's when I had my daughter and she's just like perfectly well behaved. She's like a toddler. And the woman at Trader Joe's says, you know, my husband and I thought we were really good parents. And then we had our second kid.

Tom Murray  

And we relate to that one totally agree.

Lainie Rowell  

And so I think it's it's obviously you're good parents, but it's that you have to kind of sometimes relearn how to parent just like you have to be individual you know, focus like you do so well personal and authentic with each person not trying to treat them all the same. Right?

Tom Murray  

Right. That's loving them for who they are not who you expected them to be.

Lainie Rowell  

Exactly, exactly. So, all right, my friend. Here comes the big first question. And you can take it any direction you want. But I would just love to hear and I know our listeners would love to hear what does gratitude mean to you? 

Tom Murray  

You know, when I think about gratitude, one of the things I say often is, I really believe we have to choose our lens each day, right? When we get up in the morning, if we want to see negativity in our world, we're going to see it all over the place, if that's what we expect to see, we're going to see it I mean, if we look hard, we're going to see it all over the place. Here's the flip side, we get up every morning, we want to see greatness in our world, we're gonna see it all over the place. If I look in the news, I see negativity. If I look online at the latest news story, it's negativity. But the flip side to all of that is how do I intentionally seek out the greatness as well. And so balancing it for me, I think about choosing my lens to recognize, even in the midst of chaos, even in the midst of struggles and difficult times as an individual, or maybe as an organization, whatever it might be, there's still so many things to be thankful for. And sometimes we forget to step back, we forget to pause. And when I say we, I mean me, sometimes I forget to pause to look around me, you know, I can get hyper fixated on some struggle or a reason something's gonna be a mess, or a reason something's chaos, all while sitting next to one of those babies that I was just talking about who I love and care about that far exceeds any of the worry that I had on the other side. And if I'm not careful, sometimes I'll miss those moments. And so I think it's being intentional about the moments to be grateful and thankful for those things that we do have, even in the midst of chaos of our world.

Lainie Rowell  

I think it's constant work. And I appreciate you saying it's that we're choosing this lens each day, I feel like this is an everyday thing where I have to go, like I'm rushing to do something and I'm like, Okay, stop. Yes, you got to do that. But right now, you could be here doing this, I'm such a taskmaster, like to check things off the list. And maybe you can relate to that. But it's like, I have to be present in this minute that I get with my littles or my husband or whoever.

Tom Murray  

Yeah, I think for me, it's about being intentional about it. And I really believe in the power of intentional gratitude. And there's times where I'm working with educators. And I will build things in to reflect and to pause, or to seek to write a note, sometimes I'll bring thank you cards, and I'll pass them all out, we're going to pause, you know, 10 minutes of our day, asking them to write a note for somebody on their team that they're really, really grateful for, and being specific for why so gratitude goes far beyond the superficial, or just scratching that surface. But going deeper and sharing why that is, why do you appreciate it? Because if we're not careful, we can walk by those moments so quickly, as opposed to pausing to show that appreciation, you know, and I think about how many times that can relate to my work world as well.

Lainie Rowell  

Yeah, well, let's keep going with that. Talk about your work world. As far as if you want to connect it to your book or books, I have to say plural, because you've written multiple books, where do you see this? You just gave a great example. What are some other ways that you're experiencing and expressing gratitude in kind of your day to day, it can be personal or professional.

Tom Murray  

So let me let me think about it from a work end and just working with working with principals working with district leaders. You know, one of the challenges I think we face is, we get so engrained, we're so deep in the weeds, they have so many fires, we're putting out there's so many things happening simultaneously. That I'll say again, what I said earlier, we can walk right by those moments that sometimes can matter most, right? Sometimes there's this rockstar teacher, and there she is teaching third grade, and she's so good. And I think about being a principal of this teacher and how many times I don't want to get in her way, and how many times that I pause to give her a truly authentic, you know, I really appreciate you and here's the reason I appreciate you, you are one of the most reliable people that I have ever met. Yesterday, by the way, when you did X, Y and Z... It I just want to tell you like I didn't get to find you yesterday. But I need to tell you how much that meant to our staff. And being in those moments. And by the way, showing gratitude doesn't cost anything. I mean, we can make it cost something and we can pay for something. But in those moments, it may be a moment that that person never forgets. And the challenge is, how many times do we walk right by those moments? And so when I think about it from a schooling end, I think about the principal that truly shows the staff, not just hey, Jeans Friday, I appreciate y'all deeper than that. And yeah, somebody likes jeans on Friday, it's a good thing. But deeper than that, showing those one on one conversations about why and about why because people then get motivated to do it. I believe there becomes this like cycle of gratitude or this chain of it right, people are much more in tune. And I think a school leaders showing gratitude is an opportunity to model what we want our teachers to ultimately do with students as well. And so we can't ask our teachers to build some of those relationships and trust and show gratitude ultimately to their students if we're not modeling the same thing. And so I think every day is truly an opportunity to be intentional with the gratitude that we show and to choose our lens to look around and say what are those things that I'm completely thankful for? I think thinking about the world of work as well. You know when COVID hit and the world stopped, right and everything happened the way that it did, we realized there were certain things that we took for granted that we couldn't get back in those moments. I remember talking to an assistant principal and she was she said, I would love to even go back and do discipline referrals every day for the rest of the year if I needed to, just so I could be face to face with students. But what that said to me was like, in those moments, we had not appreciated the opportunity to just be side by side with the kids that were caring about. And it took something like that for us to step back and recognize it. Or you think about the family end. How many times and working in this area with educators how many times when we talk about reflecting on just the journey we've been through in the last couple of years, how many times people talk about I appreciated time with my own children, I appreciated the opportunity to hit pause a little bit in life and found myself you know, taking a walk as a family at night. And we hadn't done that before, right? And so sometimes I think it takes something kind of crazy in our world that makes us pause, to adjust our lens a little bit. So that we can really be intentional about recognizing great things that are happening, I don't want that to demean the real challenges we have in our world around mental health, the real struggles people are facing. And so it's not one or the other. You know, as those things are happening, I think it's really, really important to show our care, show our concern, show our love and be intentional about doing so.

Lainie Rowell  

I appreciate your emphasis on the intentional and talking about specific and authentic, you said so many wonderful things. And as you were talking, it actually reminded me of when we had Tisha Richmond on the show earlier, she talked about how they had done like a gratitude circle. And when people went around and said things about her, it was stuff that she didn't know people appreciated her. So when you're talking about like, you know, we sometimes forget to do the pause and say the thing to the third grade teacher, it's like, you might say something to that third grade teacher, like you said, reliable, and maybe they didn't know that they were perceived that way. And that could be a real big win for that relationship, because that could really kind of build that rapport, that trust that just kind of just nurture that relationship, right?

Tom Murray  

Yeah, no, absolutely. And I think there's real practical ways that we can do it, you know, I'm not the biggest fan of doing it in large public spaces. Because I think some people are fine with it. Others may be really embarrassed, I think the most authentic comes, maybe it's that email, that's just a really well thought out email that was really cared for, but those intentional moments that are in person. And so going back to that word, intentional, I think we need to also try know that person enough that what will be most meaningful for them? And how can we then approach it? What's that look like?

Lainie Rowell  

I'm glad you mentioned that. That's one that honestly, I'll default towards public because I like public displays of appreciation. But I have to remember that some people are truly uncomfortable with that. And so I do try and think about what would this person like? And you know, you can always ask them. But you know, that's not to surprise them with something public, if you think they might not appreciate that. 

Tom Murray  

Right. 

Lainie Rowell  

As you're traveling around the country, what are some of the things that you have seen? And I didn't give you this question ahead of time, but what are some of the things that you have seen? And you can connect this to Personal and Authentic or to your work with Future Ready, but what are some of the things that you're seeing that you're grateful are happening in schools? Is that a fair question?

Tom Murray  

Yeah, that's a great question. And there's so many directions that I could go. So number one, I'm really grateful that the majority of districts on the whole have focused on SEL, the whole child. You know, recognizing that it's far more than math and reading and writing. And we need to focus on that. My fear that goes with that is that we revert right back to 2017/2018. When it was like data above anything else, data is important, but the child's more important, right? And so I'm really grateful for the refined focus on making sure and you know, when we go back to March 2020, and everything was... the sky was falling, and everything was shutting down, and all the fear and all the anxiety and everything was closing. Nobody was worried about like, Well, what about my spelling test next week? It was did my kids have food? Are they connected? What if I can't connect with them? Like we instantly realigned what was most important, right reprioritized it and so I think I'm really grateful for and not to say there weren't districts doing a great job with that prior to, but just truly recognizing it, because I really believe where we have this mental health pandemic happening right now. And that's not just for our students, for our staff and our educators there as well. And so I think that focus on that the acceptance around somebody struggling with their own mental health, somebody's the resources that have become available, but also trying to get past some of the notion, the stigma behind some of those pieces there as well. And so that's an area that I've seen districts do incredible work around, truly prioritizing it putting their money where their mouth is and recognizing that that is a need, it is just such core to the work and that at the end of the day, who cares what they know if they're not as a person able to thrive as an individual right and feeling included feeling part of that. So that's one area. Second thing I'm grateful for as political as it's become as a true focus on equity. And recognizing that access and opportunity for every child isn't something we can just talk about. It's something we have to actually show. You know, when you think about the pandemic, and our work, and future ready schools being an equity focused organization, when the pandemic hit, all of a sudden, it became like, Well, what happens when we can't connect and for us, we had created the we released the first ever state by state breakdown, showing the numbers of students that didn't have access. And of course, when the pandemic hits, and the government funded a lot of this, the FCC funded a lot of it, districts started to make sure kids could connect. Now granted, there are certainly some real rural areas, you could indicate hotspot its not going to do anything. But the focus on equity and recognizing what happens when we're asking kids to do something that they can't do, because everybody got on board after March of 2020, saying, Well, yeah, we can't do that. My question to have us reflect on is why didn't we care as much about that in February of 2020, because prior to the pandemic, about 70% of our teachers, ask kids to do something digital outside of school, and 16.9 million of them disproportionately are black and brown kids couldn't? Why weren't we asking the question then now, in retrospect, there were some places that did, and there were some places that were addressing and recognizing that need. But again, there became that pandemic saying, like, it hit us. And we had said, like, there's no other way. So that became front and center. So I'm grateful that equity became front and center for all, even though that it's become a political football in a lot of different areas. But I'm grateful because it's brought the conversation to the forefront. And it's helped recognize we can ask kids to do something, because if we process how many times prior to that did were students at a high school assigned something, went home did not have the access or opportunity to be able to do it didn't have the connectivity. The next day, maybe even being chastised in front of a group, what do you mean, when you hit the real world, you don't get the second opportunity. And then at a grade lowered, all because they didn't have the opportunity all because they couldn't do it. I've never met that teenager that wants to say, like, hey, we can't afford that at home. Right. And so I'm grateful that that conversation is front and center, because it needs to stay there going to the chair, the fear, my fear is that goes right back to again, 2016/17, where it's a, it's a nice to have, as opposed to if we're asking kids to do something, and they can't, that is a leadership and ethical issue. That's not a nice to have. And so that's another thing that I'm grateful for there as well. And third, I'm grateful for educators as a whole. And I don't want to be cliche on that. But when I reflect on the things that they did, during the pandemic, when they completely stepped up, when they did things that were back against the wall, and nowhere else to turn, and like you're gonna have to do that next week. And they found a way. You know, it's fascinating to me was watching early in the pandemic, you saw all these memes on social media about like families, standing ovation, the moment they see their teacher again, because all that stuff. And then, because of the politics of our world, you see the attacks, again, against educators and the nonsense that's out there. So again, I think it's brought front and center the appreciation for educators, at least, I mean, for me, I want to say I've always done that. But truly those people that get up and love other people's children so hard every day, lose sleep over other people's children, and give so much time and time again. That's something that I truly try to show gratitude with, with my own children's teachers, but also just those that I have the privilege of working with across the country.

Lainie Rowell  

I have so much to say. But before I forget, I want to say I think you have done a great job of showing love to all educators. And one of the most heartfelt blog posts, you probably know what I'm going to say is your blog post where you talk about my child running to the bus. What is the what is the exact title? I'll put it in the show notes. But I it's been years, but I still remember it so vividly.

Tom Murray  

Yeah, so it's a blog post. And I'll have to pull that the exact link of where I was reflecting at the end of the year I get emotional talking about it. Right? It was when my daughter was finishing up her kindergarten year, and essentially really thanking my teacher. And it was showing gratitude for here's what you didn't see. What you didn't see is every single day she ran to you and that may have been the title, right? Yep. And so every day the excitement because of the culture because of the classroom because of the love because of an my daughter wasn't perfect as a kindergartener, she's, she's come a long way since then. But every day she ran to them. And that's the kind of thing that teachers they don't see that they saw the kid walking through the hallway, maybe they see them run into them in the hallway. But it was just truly it to show an appreciation to show the impact that sometimes we lose sight, especially in those hard moments when we're so deep in the weeds that that teacher had had on my daughter. So this is really shout out to you kindergarten.

Lainie Rowell  

That's awesome. When you're talking about the pandemic and how it brought equity issues more to light, because we know that they existed before the pandemic, but we didn't necessarily hear them in all the spaces as much. And I think of this from every angle. I know you do, too. You mentioned food, devices, internet, like there's so many things. And I think one of the, I hesitate to use word silver lining because the pandemic was definitely traumatic and I don't want to downplay that. But it wasn't just the educators in the education world that started to see these problems. It was families. So I remember when we went into shutdown March of 2020. And I'll reference again, Jerry, our friend in Santa Ana, you know, they were very quick to say, we will get food to our students, we do not want them going hungry. And that was something that in my neighborhood, the families didn't think about that. It didn't occur to them that there would be kids who, because they don't go to school didn't get meals. And I think that that's just really, it's, you know, kind of the like, Okay, well, let's be grateful for what we have, but also just so grateful for all the educators, all the leaders, everyone who was doing so much to make sure that our kids were nurtured, because we do want to take care of the whole child, the whole teacher, and we can maybe use the umbrella term, the whole learner, because it's all of us, right. And so I really appreciate your 3 points about SEL, equity, and our educators.

Tom Murray  

Right. Now, the other piece that I'll add to that, if you think of who the true frontlines of the pandemic early on, for educators were, there'll be mad at me teachers that you were home. It was our custodians. It was our nurses. It was our food service. It was our bus drivers, right to your point of many of them were driving food around the communities at a time where people weren't going outside weren't supposed to leave certain areas, right? And so you think about who was truly the front lines of much of that, especially early on, it was those folks that are truly the backbone of our schools, our support staff, but often go unrecognized, right, often get people walk, right, principals sometimes might not even know their last name, if we're totally honest. And so I think that also brings out to me like the backbone of our buildings, being our support staff, our secretaries, and those folks that were really the frontlines of the pandemic and how we need to show gratitude to those folks, because how easy we can walk by them how easy we can just have the expectation. I joke all the time that you know, as a principal, if I was out over a district office for meetings in a given day, not sure anybody noticed if my secretary was out, I think all hell broke loose, like what's happening, right? Like she ran the place, right. And but how many times I could walk right by in the chaos and not necessarily show appreciation, right. But in those moments, making sure we're intentional about the pause and about not assuming that they know, but showing them that we know.

Lainie Rowell  

I think this is a great message, especially now as we're in 2023. I often share this Laura Kelly Funucci poem about when this is over. And it came out like the the first week of shutdown here in the in the US and talking about the things that we'll get back to like shaking a neighbor's hand, full show shelves at the grocery store. And it's like, now that we're in this different time and place, it's really easy to take those things for granted. And so I appreciate your message here. Because as we and it's still different in different places. But as we're in a very different place right now than we were in March of 2020. It's easy to start to take these things for granted again. 

Tom Murray  

Absolutely. 

Lainie Rowell  

All right, my friend, I know I gotta get you going because you have like a back to back situation today. So I'm going to just ask you, if you will do me a huge favor, you already give one shout out. But I'm notorious for allowing more now.

Tom Murray  

I'll pick up pick two of my best friends on that because I connect to them every single day. And that's Jimmy Casas and Joe Sanfelippo. And I'm grateful for them because they've been there for me personally and professionally in some of my best moments. And in some of my hardest moments. And personally the same thing. There are two people that check in on me all the time. They're two people that push my thinking they're two people that make me better, they challenge me, they help, they support. I hope to do the same for them. I hope they would say the same on that end. But sometimes we need those people that will make you laugh. Be also there when you're when you're struggling and pick you up when you're struggling in those moments, but also just make you better and truly care about your success who you are as an individual, your families and all those things and so I want to give my boys a shout and there's so many other...

Lainie Rowell  

I know, I know 

Tom Murray  

...that I could give you a shout out so I feel bad leaving other folks out you know Ken, Matt, Mark. 

Lainie Rowell  

No, no. I'm gonna be the bad guy so you don't feel like you didn't get to say... I know you have a ton a ton and, Ken, I heard your name and there's other. That's Ken Shelton. 

Tom Murray  

Yep. 

Lainie Rowell  

So so many people in your network and maybe I can even insert myself there into the ecosystem that we live in, where we get to be around these people who challenge us in the best possible ways, who support us, who really just inspire us on like an everyday basis. And so that's awesome. One of the things I appreciate with you and these friendships is that you you bring us into the inside jokes every once in a while on social media. And so there's nothing I love more than a than a Joe-Tom birthday tribute. And so if, if you're not on Twitter already, you should join just to see them roast each other. It's pretty amazing. 

Tom Murray  

I think we've been wishing each other the happiest 50th For the past eight years. And we look forward to those days actually coming. But you know, people, the work that we all do is incredibly stressful as educators, you need to laugh and you need to have those people that will keep you grounded and keep you humble, when things are good, but at the same time that will pick you up and make you laugh. And those those two guys are two of the ones for me for sure. So give em both a shout out. 

Lainie Rowell  

Absolutely. All right. So Tom, there's a million ways to connect with you. What is the best way? I will put all your stuff in the socials. And then I do want to give you a minute to talk about your books if you want, I feel like I've given you a couple openings. And you're just too humble.

Tom Murray  

You know me. For me, you know, it's I would be a really skinny salesman, but my bottom line is like, I'm not here to try and sell on my end. And like, I feel like hey, let your work speak for itself on mine for me. And if people want it, they'll go get it. I appreciate the shout Person and Authentic is part of my lived experiences that I think people can really relate to. My goal is to encourage and inspire but lovingly challenge. Help us bring back to kind of why we do what we do and what this work is all about. That whole child, SEL side, one of the things I talk about is the hidden stories within and recognizing the stories on people's hearts. And that can be good, it can be bad, that we don't see every day that sometimes we miss, right, that are a huge part of where their mindset is, where their heart is in a given day. And how do we get to know that with our students? How do we get to know that with our colleagues. And so thank you for the shout out- Personal and Authentic, I appreciate it. So I get to speak a lot about it in the country. Currently, right now give my own current teachers, for my kids teachers are in their little shout out they had opportunities, and also to amplify the voices of many people throughout that book, just with practical ways to do things. And so I appreciate the shout out with that said connect with me. Check out ThomasCMurray.com. And on the socials, on Twitter @ThomasCMurray, Instagram, @ThomasCMurrayedu and the same there for Facebook. And so I'd love to connect with folks.

Lainie Rowell  

He means it and I will put all the stuff in the show notes so people can connect with you, Tom, I super appreciate you. I'm not going to make this about me. But I will say that you have supported me in countless ways. And I am truly grateful for you and all you have done. I consider you a friend and I appreciate you.

Tom Murray  

I appreciate that. Thank you so much. Back at you as well. And for anybody listening, thank you so much for the opportunity to connect with you. Would love to connect with you online there as well. Thanks for the work you do each and every day.

Lainie Rowell  

Thank you, Tom. Thank you all for listening.

Lainie Rowell   

If you're grateful for this episode, please be sure to subscribe today. And if you're feeling really thankful, please go to Apple podcasts to submit a review so other educators know the value. One last thing. Please connect on social media using the hashtag #EvolvingWithGratitude to share your gratitude stories.

Episode 40 - Naming the Impact and Sharing the Story with Guest Bri Hodges

Shownotes:

Bri is my "sister from another mister"! She also inspires innovation, fosters empathetic learning cultures, and puts purpose into practice with educators throughout the country. She wears many hats including a cowboy hat and she is known as a horse wrangler! This episode is a #MustListen!

About Our Guest:

An experienced leader in education, strategy, culture development, and implementation, Brianna Henneke Hodges helps develop and enact human-centered transformational strategies that personalize experience, elevate engagement and enhance outcomes. Bri is Learner-Centered Collaborative's Director of Strategic Partnerships. She was named K12 Administrator to Watch (2018) and Texas EdTech of the Year (2017). Brianna is also National Advisor & Spokesperson for Future Ready Instructional Leaders, Future Ready Faculty member, and co-host of the Lemonade Learning podcast and host of Learning Through Uncertainty, a Future Ready Schools Podcast.

Website: briannahodges.com

Twitter: @bhodgesEDU
Instagram: @bhodgesEDU

About Lainie:

Lainie Rowell is an educator, international consultant, podcaster, and TEDx speaker. She is the lead author of Evolving Learner and a contributing author of Because of a Teacher. Her latest book, Evolving with Gratitude, was just released. An experienced teacher and district leader, her expertise includes learner-driven design, community building, online/blended learning, and professional learning. Learn more at linktr.ee/lainierowell.

Twitter - @LainieRowell 

Instagram - @LainieRowell

Evolving with Gratitude, the book, is now available! Purchase here! 

You can also get bulk orders for your staff (10 copies or more) at a discounted price! Just fill out the form linked below and someone will get back to you ASAP! bit.ly/ewgbulkdiscount

Transcript:

Lainie Rowell  

Welcome to the Evolving with Gratitude Podcast. I'm your host, Lainie Rowell and I'm thankful you're here. Let's talk about ways to bring gratitude into our learning communities to nurture relationships, improve well being, and activate learning.

Lainie Rowell: Friends, I just had to hit the record button because my sweet friend, Bri and I have been talking for like a long, long time and we realized we should actually record this episode or we will have nothing, although a lovely time together. Is that fair to say, Bri?

Brianna Hodges: Absolutely. I I guess it's more of the like, we're supposed to share and amplify, not just keep this between the two of us.

Right. So, so now we gotta invite the crew, like all, all of these lovely listeners, to, to our, to our party. So,

Lainie Rowell: I know, but it's hard cuz it's like you're my sister from another mister. And the listeners of this show, I think already know that we have a podcast, Lemonade Learning. On hiatus,

Brianna Hodges: on hiatus.

We're, gathering a lot of lemons and ingredients right now. So to be, to be returned to, yes,

Lainie Rowell: Well, I do miss recording with you on that often because, I just wanna talk to you, which is why it took us so long to hit the record button here. And I'm not sure that everyone wants to hear the things that I was sharing about my life.

It's not that interesting. But, but I am excited to share about your life because you are very interesting. So I'm gonna do a quick intro. It's, will not be enough and I want you to add to whatever you want to, but , here it comes, professional. I'm gonna get real serious. Right now, we have Bri Hodges who is. An education consultant, strategic storyteller, keynote speaker, insatiable learner, Future Ready Coach, and the latest on the resume, Learner Centered Collaborative, Director of Strategic Partnerships. Did I get those all right?

Brianna Hodges: Think so. Wow. I, I mean, and, or, or, and probably add in, you know, a few extras if you want.

Lainie Rowell: You add them in. You add them in. Cuz you have too many for me to

get them all.

Brianna Hodges: No, absolutely. You, you gave me credit for far too much, so, no.

The only thing that I, that I would, would add in is, is a mom. So, I mean, other than that you kind of, you kind of hit all of the. And, and Texan, right? Like I, I, I don't know that there's really any way to describe me without including that somewhere in there. So super pumped.

Lainie Rowell: I'm so excited. But I do feel like we should add where you live and what you do.

I don't know how you have time for it, but you are like, you've got like livestock. There's like, you're busy.

Brianna Hodges: I do. So I live on, I, I live on a, a little, we, I always have this conversation with people in Texas or outside of Texas. If you're outside of Texas, you probably are gonna call it a ranch. I don't call it a ranch because in Texas, like a ranch is like thousands of acres to me.

But I don't have that much. I definitely don't have thousands of acres. , but it's , my little family property that my dad started and he passed away 10 years ago, when he got sick, he asked if I would come home and take care of the place.

And so returned to my roots, came back here to, Stephenville, Texas, which is a tiny little town in North Central Texas. And my family and I do raise quarter horses. My son and I raise and show reigned cow horses and ranch horses, stock horses. And so we have a lot of fun and we're, we're actually ramping up.

I was, I was sharing this with somebody earlier that this is kind of a busy time for us show wise because. This is, this is the part where we're, working on qualifying for the world shows, which are in the summer. And so that, that deadline is looming, in February for, for lots of our organizations.

And so my son and I are about to, like, we're, we're gonna. Get through the, the Christmas holidays and then that next week, like we've got shows the 28th through the 31st and then pretty much every weekend or every other weekend in January into into February. So it's, yeah, it's a lot of fun.

There have been plenty of times that I have jumped from the airport into my big old mama truck and pulling, pulling horses across the country to, to get to all of our places. But yes,

Lainie Rowell: and I'm just gonna add for those who are like, how is it. That we didn't get Bri on this show until episode something.

I don't even know what episode it's gonna be. And we're recording this in December because I had to try and catch you when you weren't constantly flying off to somewhere. So we're recording in December of 2022...

Brianna Hodges: 100% on Bri and Bri's schedule. Not because Lainie didn't ask, like only because Bri drops the ball on giving...

Lainie Rowell: No, no, no, no.

That's not what I'm saying. That's not what I'm saying. But I do want, for the record, say you were invited on the show before there was a show.

Brianna Hodges: Hundred percent.

Lainie Rowell: Okay. I just wanna, I love you and you're busy and I get that it is stars aligning issue, not because I don't love you, and I couldn't wait to get my sis on the show.

Brianna Hodges: Hundred percent. And as it often is with our families, for everybody who is out there listening, it's the ones that we're closest to that we sometimes put off, right? Because it's like, oh my gosh, I know she's gonna still love me if I can't get there.

Lainie Rowell: Oh, yes, yes.

Brianna Hodges: And so I am thrilled that it finally worked out for our, our schedules because I have definitely long time listener.

Huge advocate and supporter of Lainie Rowell and all that you do. And I am super, super grateful to get to be a part of this.

Lainie Rowell: Oh, well, you know how much I love you. And the feelings are mutual. And of course not just the podcast, but you're in the book too. Had to have you in there for that. And we just give each other all the grace and patience in the world, don't we? Cuz we love each other. .

Brianna Hodges: Absolutely. Absolutely. Grateful. Grateful.

Lainie Rowell: Absolutely.

Alright, well let's get onto what does gratitude mean to you?

Brianna Hodges: Well, I actually did share this in my little portion of, Evolving with Gratitude and to me gratitude is story. I think that one of the greatest components of being grateful and thankful is to share why you're grateful and thankful. And I think that like when somebody has either given you something, whether that is a tangible gift, whether it is an anecdote, whether it's an experience whether it's an emotion when you, you pay it forward, when you share about it and when you tell others about that experience, what it meant to you, what you've learned from it, all those different pieces.

And so I really just, I, I think that story is, what is to me, the truest form of gratitude, being able to really put into words what that experience means and, and to think so highly of it that you put it out there in, into perpetuity by, by talking about it and sharing it and, and showcasing that impact.

Lainie Rowell: Oh, I love how you are so passionate about story. And I will say, obviously you've been on the Evolving with Gratitude journey with me the whole way. Cause I wouldn't let you out of it even if you wanted to. And , one of the first times I really heard about a gratitude jar was from you.

I don't know if you know that, but you don't shared that with me.

Brianna Hodges: Yeah. Yeah. How funny. Because that gratitude jar actually came from one of my dear friends, Tara Desiderio, and she sent me a gratitude jar and was like, when you, you know, don't feel like, yeah, like make this a part of your day and. , you know, she challenged me to, to sit down and to, to find those bright spots and to you know, that it's, it's really easy for us to get swept up by overwhelm and to, to see the really big rocks that are all around us that we feel like we need to push.

And that, that it's so hard and they're so heavy. That sometimes we forget to pause and to, to take into inventory, into, into consideration all of the amazing things that are happening around us. And she actually had sent that to me. It was so it's, it was, it was beautiful. It was out of nowhere.

She is my little Amazon Amazon gift queen that she just like pops up in the middle of you know, when I least expect it. And that is so, that is so crazy cuz I remember, I do remember like showing it to you and be like, look at this. It's so cool. Yeah. Well I didn't know that that was your first, your first time ta seeing something like that or, or kind of getting exposed to it, so that's really crazy.

Lainie Rowell: Well, I should clarify. I knew that gratitude jars existed, but it hadn't occurred to me to gift one to someone else. And that was where I was, Tara, you brilliant, brilliant woman the joy that you shared with me about getting that gift was when I was like, oh my gosh, this is like a gift I'm gonna give people.

Brianna Hodges: You have, now, now you've like, you gave it to your family even, right?

Lainie Rowell: I've given it to everyone. I did something a little different with my husband last year for the holidays is instead of giving him an empty jar, my kids and I spent a few weeks writing notes and filling it for him, and then we gave it to him and we said, these are the things we're grateful for with you.

And so that was a little twist on it, but I was really happy to do .

Brianna Hodges: I love that. Cause I also think that it's really important to remember that, that like we shouldn't put so much pressure. , sometimes it, there's a lot of pressure to find the things, right? Yeah. Like, like especially when you're looking introspectively of is that, you know, I don't know what impact I have on other people. And so I, I love that like, twist of reminding people, these are all the different things in all the different ways that, that we are grateful for you. So that's a good job. Well done, well done.

Lainie Rowell: Thank you. I was pretty happy with that gift.

And I should say, I'm, I'm not trying to throw my husband under the bus here, but I am. Notoriously falling short in giving him gifts that he likes and that one he actually really loved. So we now have an agreement. I will stop buying him any sort of clothing cuz that is a miss a hundred percent of the time.

And focus more on these gifts, ,

Brianna Hodges: Meaningful, like deeply personal and and recognition. There you go.

Lainie Rowell: So, right. That's all. That's all it takes. Okay. I wanna give you an opportunity because you embody gratitude.

I wanna give you an opportunity to just open it up really wide. You can go however you want with this personal professional, both how you experience or express gratitude. Like you've already shared some ways, but what is this looking like in your life? Go in whatever direction you want .

Brianna Hodges: So I will say that and I again, I, shared a little bit about this.

Like I grew up in a, in a household where you wrote thank you notes. Like that was definitely, like you expressed your gratitude. That was an expectation. There was no like form letter that you typed up and then just signed your name, like you hand wrote thank you notes for everything.

If somebody thought enough to bake you a dozen cookies or to. You know, give you some sum of money or, or, you know, take you on an experience, any of that stuff. You hand wrote a letter of thanks. And my, my family, my father in particular was very explicit that you had to name what you received and then you had to share how that impacted you.

And I say that because that was just part of what we did growing up. Like it didn't. Seem a it didn't seem earth shattering to me. It wasn't like, oh my gosh, you know, now I'm gonna be a forever grateful person. Like, I really didn't ever, I don't think that it, it made me think of, of gratitude in, in any, any different light than, than anybody else did.

I, kind of look back as like an adult of when did I start to see gratitude like coming up in my life and all of those things. And I think it was probably when my son was almost a year old. We were moving and, and I was gonna be taking him from the daycare that he had started at when he was six weeks old.

And I absolutely adored his daycare provider. Like she was incredible and I really wanted to give her something that she would be able to hold onto and would serve as a memory for her and of us and, and of my son and, and all of that. And I just remember like really racking my brain.

And I wasn't in education at that point. I was a director of marketing and PR and I was you know, at the hospital. And this hospital was also where the daycare facility was and so I remember one day just like walking through one of the gift shops of the hospital and there was this pendant that was that was hearts and they had thumbprints that were in there.

And I, grabbed it and I immediately knew like, this is it, this is what I'm gonna give her. And I remember sitting down and writing a thank you note to her because as somebody who took care of my, of my, my baby from like, From, from six weeks old to a year, and think of all of those changes that are happening there and all of the, you know, emotional and physical and, you know, coordination and behavior and whether they like certain fruits or vegetables and, and if they're gonna be willing to try things.

I mean, there's so many, you know, opportunities to shape in that first year. And I just wanted to show her like such appreciation for this and, and, and so I remember writing her this thank you note that that talks about how she truly imprinted on not just my son, but like on our hearts and, and what she had had.

Like, we would forever take that with us. And you know, my son is now 13 he will be 14 next month, and I still stay in touch with this woman. And I follow along on her adventures with her with her own children and her grandchildren. And she's from England. And so you know, I love to like see all of her adventures and, and all that stuff, but I think that was the first part where it was like really moving beyond being thankful for a tangible, something that I've opened and that somebody had spent money on and instead, like really being grateful for the time that others have spent enriching my life and the effort that they took to do that.

And that really like, I think has just kind of like continued throughout my adult experience, right? So that was when my son was born. As many of you know, I've always kinda shared about my dad. My dad passed away from pancreatic cancer when my son was almost five. And so that was another moment where it was like all of a sudden, it sounds really, really horrible to be grateful for cancer, to be grateful for a terminal diagnosis, but at the same time, it was this, reminder of, you've got to take into consideration all of life and, and all of the people that have been in your life, and then think about what they've brought to it.

I remember at that point in time, because we, we knew right from the very beginning with my father that his diagnosis was, was as such that we knew we were gonna be on a very, very limited timeframe. And, and I just remember being like, I have to tell him everything. Like there was no way that I was ever gonna be able to be...

I would ever be able to write enough to be to express the gratitude that I had. And so it was just that chance to like, I have to tell him, I have to tell him now. And as you know, my dad was a professor and he was actively teaching when he was diagnosed.

And, one of the things that we did through that was my dad was, very adamant that we invite his current students to the house to get to say, you know, kind of the last lecture. Right? And so that was their chance then to invite in that opportunity to share that role that he had provided for them.

And even now it's been 10 years. This year was 10 years. And I still have my dad's students from the 25 years that he was a professor, that some of them remember me as a five year old little girl. Some of them know me as a 43 year old adult, and they will send me the most poignant and funny and overtly human experiences of what you know, my, Marlboro man of a father meant to them.

I think that is what being grateful means to me. And, I've taken all of those experiences of, you know, how do we name the impact that people have on us, and how do we express that like, you mean something to me because of this. And so I try to challenge myself to remember that it's sometimes in the smallest of little ways that somebody makes a difference to us and we owe it to that person to, to say thank you for doing that. Like, to take time outta your day to, to smile at me, that means so much. Right. And I, I think it's just, it makes the world a better place.

And for me personally, that's a world that I would rather live in than to keep it all in and feel isolated.

Lainie Rowell: You know that I love the very special way that you keep your dad's memory alive and his legacy alive, and the way that you share about him with such love, such specificity, such authenticity. He's so important to you and I just, I love that you share it. I wish I could have met him, but I still feel like I know him in some ways because of the way that you share about him. And it was really profound to me when you said naming the impact, whether it's the caregiver for your child or your parent, or just, there's so many people that impact our lives and often we just don't even mention it because we go, oh, I don't wanna bother 'em.

I mean, there's like a myriad of reasons why we don't always think to mention it. Sometimes we're just rushed. Sometimes it doesn't occur to us. There's so many reasons why it doesn't happen, and so to be so intentional, I imagine that when you're writing that letter, to your son's childcare provider... Were you filled with joy writing that letter?

Brianna Hodges: Oh, absolutely. And then like a little kid. Right? Like, handing it to her and it's, you know, it's that part where you're like, open it, open it, open it, read it.

You want them to know like how special they, you know, and it doesn't have to be big things, I mean, You could sit there and say she was doing her job, right? Like she, she was just, you know, filling this in. Yeah. She was, and she was doing a kick ass job. Like she was incredible. Like, she went above and beyond.

And we say this all the time, like with our children's teachers or you know, their coaches or their you know, whether it's giving them soccer lessons or, you know, teaching them cooking lessons or their everyday elementary school teachers or their high school teachers, or, you know, any of those things like when you take time and you can create a, a, a joyous experience for somebody and a meaningful experience for somebody you wanna thank people for that because there's a lot of drudgery in what we do. And it can be a terrible experience. It can be one of those things where it's like, this is not fun for me. This is not, you know, interesting for me. I don't feel like this is relevant to me or you can turn around and have the exact same content, but done in an engaging way from somebody who is developing or has developed a relationship with you that all of a sudden you're like, wow, this, this, this has impact to me and I think that it's just that joy of impact, right? Of like, whether it is knowing that you've impacted somebody else or being able to show the impact that they have made on you is, is truly one of the most pure forms of joy.

Lainie Rowell: I completely agree. And I'm like getting all the warm fuzzies. I feel like my brain's getting flooded with the happiness chemicals as we're talking because I'm like vicariously living through you having all this gratitude for these people who have impacted your life.

And so it's like the naming and the sharing of the impact... we wanna make sure that people know how what they've done has mattered to us.

Brianna Hodges: I mean, just even thinking back to like the gratitude jar that you and your, your kids made for Lawrence, right?

Like that filled him with such tremendous joy to know that like all these little things that he, he does every day unknowingly probably like, not, not like, not cuz he's set out like, I'm gonna really make an impact with my kids today. You know, like that, that mattered and it's noticed and it's appreciated.

I'm sure all of us could think of a million different examples. One of my favorite ones is from a colleague of mine and she was interviewing for a position and I was on the interviewing committee and she was petrified. She was absolutely nervous to, to go in and I had talked with her the day before and, you know, just to kind of be like, Hey, this is a great opportunity. I know that you have so much genius that you can be able to offer, and I said, when you get nervous, when you, you know, question yourself, I said just look for me and know that there's at least one person in the room that believes in you wholeheartedly. And, you know, look for that smile.

Look for somebody that, you know and kind of go from there. And I didn't really think anything of it cuz I just was, you know, just trying to wish her good luck. Right. And few months passed, she gets the job and I still don't really even think anything of it because she was, was perfect for it.

Right? And it wasn't until almost a year after that that she shared with me how powerful that smile was. Just one spot. She was like, I, I clearly remember, she was like, I can picture everything about it and just looking at you. And like, she's like, I can feel my heart slow down looking at you. And, and she was like, that just that impact means so much.

And that totally meant the world to me. That something so simple as being able to smile at somebody, but at the same time, like I would've never known that if she hadn't named it. And so I guess I just share that from both sides, right? It's the smallest thing that we don't even realize that we're making an impact, and it's also the smallest thing that makes an impact.

Lainie Rowell: Beautifully said, and I mean, like, the storyteller in you is just so lovely. And I like how you even give this very specific example of she sees your smile and then it slows her heartbeat down, right? Because she's so nervous and then she just sees you and you get her to a calmer place where she can move forward in the interview.

I mean, wholeheartedly is how you live. It's how. , I see you in every facet of your life, and that's why I'm just. Refusing to let you out of my life you'll never be able to leave. You're here forever.

Brianna Hodges: Well, I'm glad cause I don't want to leave. Nobody can drag me out, so, haha.

Lainie Rowell: Okay, good. We're stuck together. Okay, perfect. All right. I know we spent a lot of time talking before, so I'm gonna have to let you go pretty soon. I wanna make sure and give you a chance to give your shout out, personal or professional, just anyone top of mind.

Brianna Hodges: Oh my. I'm gonna probably go cheesy, but it's, it's wholeheartedly true.

I wanna give a great big, huge shout to my kids. I have two kids that I have traveled pretty much from day one with both of these kids. They have always been a part of everything that I've done from coaching where Delaney has been in a baby Bjorn on Courtside while I've been holding her, jumping up and down into triple overtime.

To, you know, my son riding the school bus with us to basketball games and being, you know from those points to being at at conferences and also, you know, being a part of, of my roles in schools and, and getting to come in and be part of, of those that I've experimented with and in different pieces like that to, to now being the recipient of those FaceTime calls when I'm not there. And you know, calling my son right before he steps out on, on the football field because a, a flight was missed and I wasn't able to make it home in time. And I had to be the person who told him good luck before he took the field.

I just, I'm constantly grateful for these two little people. They make me a better human. , they make me a better teacher. They make me you know, more intentional. I realize that, like what I say has impact, positive and negative. , intentional and unintentional. And they, they continually give me a redo every day.

Which I am immensely grateful for their grace. And I don't think I could say it enough. I, I think that they truly make me who I aspire to be. They spoil me with lots of love. And I hope that I live up to even a quarter of what they say sometimes.

Lainie Rowell: That is not cheesy at all. I love that you love them so much and you talk about it and you share and you know, obviously we all love our kids. But to have that gratitude for them and to have it while you're in it right. It's so, so easy to like get caught up in the day-to-day and to actually have that appreciation for them every moment and every day. That's amazing.

Brianna Hodges: I'll definitely say that they're at a fun age, 10, and 13, where they're working their way into like really fun to hang out with. I know a lot of you guys know, my son and I travel together all the time and we are competitive with each other and we also coach each other and still I have to be like, I'm the mom, right?

Like, you don't get to treat like, like that stuff too. But it's, it's really fun to see them develop into people and so it's really rewarding to see the fingerprints and the impact of so many others come into their personality too.

Lainie Rowell: Oh, and I have not met Mason and Delaney in person. We have Zoom chatted occasionally.

Brianna Hodges: Yes. They've come through,

Lainie Rowell: They've come through in our chat. But you're just an awesome mom and you make me wanna be a better mom and I just appreciate you in so many ways. I'm so glad you're in my life.

Brianna Hodges: Same, same. Absolutely. I appreciate this opportunity to share with you and to support your work because this is incredible work so thank you.

Lainie Rowell: You're too kind. Now this is where I'm gonna put you on the spot as an accountability piece, and I'm going to say how... you know it's coming, don't you?.

Brianna Hodges: I do, I do.

Lainie Rowell: How's the book coming?

Brianna Hodges: It's coming. It's coming. There's lots of outlines being formed. I've reached out to a few folks. Wheels are in motion. . Things are happening. It is now officially in the 2023 plan that is officially like minted stamped.

Lainie Rowell: This is your commitment device. We are announcing to the world.

Brianna Hodges: It's happening. Yes. So stay tuned for further details and developments, but yes, it will, it will happen this year. A hundred percent.

Lainie Rowell: Okay. I'm so excited. I am so excited. I will be first one in line, ready to hit the button on Amazon as soon as it goes live. I'll set it an alarm if it happens in the middle of the night

Brianna Hodges: maybe madlib style and like people fill in and do all that kind of stuff. But like some version of it will be out for sure.

Lainie Rowell: I mean, I think that would be interesting too. , but I wanna hear your voice cuz you're amazing. All right my friend. How can people connect with you? I'll put it in the show notes, but what's the best way?

Brianna Hodges: Absolutely. So you can find me on all forms of social media at B Hodges, E D U, so B h o d g e s E D U.

I have a really funny story about that, but I'm not gonna share it right now cause I know we're pressed for time. But short version of it is, is that somebody didn't know that, that was like my first initial and my last name. And so they put it all together and they like, they were like, oh, it's bogadishu.

And like the first time that I met them, that's how they introduced themselves. Their spouse knew like what it was and that, anyhow, it was very, very funny, but it was a, just a good reminder of like, just cuz you know how it's, doesn't mean that everybody else does, so, yeah. Yeah. So @BhodgesEDU on social media.

My website is briannahodges.com or you can also find me through the Learner-Centered all kinds of stuff. So look forward to connecting with folks.

Lainie Rowell: You're doing so much great work in the world. I am grateful for you. I know many, many people are, and I'm excited for people who maybe somehow had not already been connected to you.

They should be, but if they're not, no judgment. Now's the time to get on the Bri Train cuz she's amazing.

Brianna Hodges: There you go. Well, I like to say every great story begins with an introduction, so let's introduce each other. It'll be good.

Lainie Rowell: Perfect. I'm gonna put all your socials in. Show notes so people can just touch and go there, click and go there.

And then I'm gonna let you go. And this is really hard for me. I never like saying goodbye, but I feel like, oh my gosh, when am I gonna talk to again?

Brianna Hodges: I guess it's just gonna be, I guess it, it'll be a good reminder for us that we just need to, to pick a restart date for Lemonade Learning.

So I know that'll get us back in the, in the same Zoom frame.

Lainie Rowell: This episode ends with commitment devices, . I love it. I love it. Okay. My sweet friend, my sis. I love you. Love you, love you,

Brianna Hodges: Love you, love you too. Thank you so much.

Lainie Rowell: Thank you all for listening.

Lainie Rowell   

If you're grateful for this episode, please be sure to subscribe today. And if you're feeling really thankful, please go to Apple podcasts to submit a review so other educators know the value. One last thing. Please connect on social media using the hashtag #EvolvingWithGratitude to share your gratitude stories.

Episode 39 - Making the Invisible Visible with Guest Jerry Almendarez

Shownotes:

If you are looking for a master class in authenticity and making the invisible, visible, look no further! Jerry Almendarez is an inclusive, listening leader, who continuously shares the brilliance of learners of all ages.

About Our Guest:

Jerry Almendarez’ career in education spans 28 years and includes experience as a classroom teacher, assistant principal, and principal.  As the Superintendent of Schools for the Santa Ana Unified School District, he is responsible for leading the 11th largest school district in the State, with 56 schools and programs, approximately 5,000 employees, and an expense budget of $890.6 million.  In 2019, Jerry Almendarez was named a 2019 Ted-Ed Innovative Educator and in 2020 was named CALSA Region 6 Superintendent of the Year.

Website: sausd.us

Twitter: @JerryAlmendarez Instagram: @JerryAlmendarez

Transcript:

Transcribed by otter.ai

Lainie Rowell  

Welcome to the Evolving with Gratitude Podcast. I'm your host, Lainie Rowell and I'm thankful you're here. Let's talk about ways to bring gratitude into our learning communities to nurture relationships, improve well being, and activate learning.

Lainie Rowell  

Hello, my friends. Thanks for being here today. I am delighted to have a wonderful person with me, Jerry Almendarez. How are you, Jerry?  Good, good,

Jerry Almendarez  

Good, good, good. Having a great day so far and even better now that I'm here with you.

Lainie Rowell  

Oh, you're so kind. I'm going to do a quick introduction of Jerry. Jerry has a career in education that spans 28 years, and includes experience as a classroom teacher, Assistant Principal, Principal, he is currently the superintendent of schools at Santa Ana Unified School District. This is not a small district. This is actually the 11th largest school district in the state of California, with 56 Schools and Programs. Jerry is an amazing human, he has been recognized for that in a multitude of ways and including some awards. In 2019, Jerry was named a TED Ed Innovative Educator and in 2020, with named CALSA Region ^ Superintendent of the Year. Superintendent of the Year every year for me, my friend. And that was only scratching the surface. Jerry, what else would you like people to know about you?

Jerry Almendarez  

Oh, nothing, you know, I received those accolades with amazing people surrounding me. And it's just a reflection of the work that my team has, has been a part of, ever since I started. So it can't be more thankful and more grateful for the team that I've had surrounding me during my career.

Lainie Rowell  

So that is a true Jerry way. For those of you who are not familiar with Jerry, he always shares the credit. And so he gets these awards and the first thing he says is, it's about my team. And so that is one of the many things I adore about you, my friend. And I'm so honored, thrilled, delighted, excited, like all the words, to have you here today because I don't know if you realize this, but to me, you have been on this gratitude journey with me almost the entire way. You are one of the first people that I started highlighting as "look how this person is showing their gratitude" in the Edutopia article that I first wrote about gratitude, a while back, and I'm just, I'm just so thankful for you, because you are doing so many amazing things you and your team. And by the way, in honor of you now, when I share your work, I say Jerry and his team, because I want to do it the way that you would do it. So

Jerry Almendarez  

Great. And I attribute you know, are connecting through the work that you do. But also, you know, having a number of what I call reverse mentors, people that I see in the industry, researchers, authors that I come across on my social media feeds, and just begin to follow and embrace the work and identify what their values are. And if they're close to the values that I aspire to be like, well, people like you, I start to follow. And that helps me identify the new and emerging trends as a 13 year superintendent. And so reflecting and not necessarily working and making decisions that create systems that work for me, but work for the upcoming generation.

Lainie Rowell  

I truly appreciate how inclusive you are, how you're a lifelong, continuous improvement learner, I think that shines through in everything that you do. And I truly appreciate that. And I'm super happy to be a little part of that. Because I'm constantly learning from you, my friend. But to get on to my big first question that I say big because some people are like, Why do you ask the hardest question first, like, let's just do this. Let's just say, you know, what does gratitude mean to you? Oh, that's just a light question. Right?

Jerry Almendarez  

Yeah. No, it's a great question. And I think it is evolved over time. But to summarize, it means feeling and the treating of people as human beings, and just the genuine experience that you get when you encounter other people growing up, it wasn't always easy for me. And I was always on the receiving end of some maybe not so generous or gratitude,  comments and conversations. And I remember telling myself, if I ever get to a position that has influence, I'm not going to treat people the way that people are treating me. And that has stuck with me my entire career. And gratitude, again, is just the feeling of that human spirit, embracing the kindness and the generosity and the value system and the integrity that other people have.

Lainie Rowell  

I just, I'm gonna like not even be able to form sentences here, because I'm just so in awe and so adore the way that you lead. And I mean, you probably heard me say this before about you, but it's like, you're in a room with all of these educators and your peers and you don't feel compelled to be the one talking all the time. You're this excellent listener. And so I just think that's a form of gratitude as well if that makes any sense because you're honoring everyone around you. And I just wanted to share that.

Jerry Almendarez  

Thank you. Thank you, I've learned from I've learned you know, I made a lot of mistakes throughout my career. And  sometimes been a part of conversations that are truthful, but also piercing. And I think one thing that I've learned to do is over time is be that active listener and just be more reflective. And I learned more by just listening, you know, I can ask one or two questions, and then let the room have a discussion. And so I value that, I appreciate that early on in my superintendency, I think I was probably a lot different than I am now. But with experience, with age, with life happening, I think things have been put into perspective that just make me respond differently now. And I value that. I appreciate that. And I appreciate you sharing that with me. That means a lot.

Lainie Rowell  

We see you. I'm not the only one. All right, so now I will say for those who haven't read my first Edutopia article on gratitude, I definitely shined the light on you. And hopefully it felt like it was you and your team. But maybe that's something I have evolved to be better at honoring that. One of the things that I see you doing so beautifully is making the invisible visible. You are in the 11th largest school district in California, you have like roughly 5000 employees, how many students do you have? 

Jerry Almendarez  

Approximately 41,000. 

Lainie Rowell  

That's a lot of kids, and you have all these programs, you're doing all these tons and tons of things. But if you're not in Santa Ana unified, you don't know about it. And even if you're in Santa Ana unified, you may not realize what someone else is doing, maybe even the room next door, maybe in the site next door, and things like that. So in the Edutopia article, I pointed out that you are very good at using social media to, like I said, make the invisible visible and highlight all the amazing people who are doing so much for our learners. And so would you be comfortable sharing a little bit more about how you do that. You're actually really strategic with it, which I would love to hear about that too. 

Jerry Almendarez  

Sure. It's actually evolved. It started out with me being a new superintendent, and really having conversations with some of the adults in the district, previous district saying I wasn't out at school sites enough. They didn't see me out enough. And this was me prior to being on social media. And so I really struggle with that, because I knew personally I was out. I was in classrooms and I was out. And I was thinking, why don't they know that I'm out there? How can they don't see me out there? Well, if I didn't go to their site or their classroom, then they wouldn't know I was there. So it was at the time that I'm giving away my age now as social media was starting to become more mainstream. And so what I started to do was follow some people that I really valued their contribution on social media, and I started to see their posts. And then eventually, I became comfortable enough to say, and think, you know, I can do this too. So I started to actively engage in social media, very quickly, after that engagement in the various platforms. I was getting responses from teachers and from principals saying, Hey, how come you don't come and visit me? And so very quickly, did the conversation go from the superintendent not being at school sites to how come you didn't come to my site. And it was at that point that I learned the value of being able to lead with the social influence model. And over time, as I have navigated my previous district in this district, seeing the amazing things that we're doing, and then reflecting in conversations with the staff, and the community is like, How come we're not sharing the amazing things that are happening here. Nobody knows about this. And so really made an intentional and tactful effort to encourage our people to be on social media and to tell their story. And so I think we've done an amazing job. We have a brand ambassador program, that we have volunteers from throughout the district and various departments. I have my facilities department on social media, showing pictures and video of buildings and construction that's taking place. Another thing I'm proud of is our nutritional Services Department showing the farm to table process that they use and the scratch cooking that they do. I have my custodial crew during the COVID time did a big push in social media, letting our community and our students and parents know what they were doing to make the schools in the classroom safe. And it has transitioned now to be more intentional in the sense that we're asking our school sites to create hashtags that reflect the work that our community has done through the development of our graduate profile. So it's been kind of an evolution. And the leading with social influence mindset has kind of set in not just to post but to post intentionally to create a common understanding of the alignment that is happening in Santa Ana Unified School District.

So I will say, coincidentally, you and I are geographically not that far apart. I'm in like one city over. But just because I am in proximity to you, close, that is not how I know what's going on in Santa Ana, I could be in New Jersey, I could be an Iowa I could be anywhere and I would know what's going on in Santa Ana, just by looking at the socials and all the things that you share. And I love how you talk about that you have invited, encouraged, empowered your team to do this as well, this isn't just you doing it, you're actually saying no, come on, you guys tell your story, you're doing amazing things. And so you've given them that permission, which I think is really important.

Exactly. And you know, a lot of that reflection, and a lot of the validation for that comes from your book, gratitude that I know, a lot of our people have on their desks. And so the support in the network that I have, and the researchers that are out there and doing the research are just validating the importance of this social connection, especially in a time now as we're transitioning with the evolution of technology. We're no longer competing regionally, this is a global competition and competition in a sense that we have to create opportunities for everybody to be competitive globally, not just within this region. And that's the social influence part, the leading with the intention, and being tactical about how you use social media, not necessarily just to post pictures, but to tell the story.

Lainie Rowell  

Could you tell us a little bit more about like, if there's an educator doesn't matter what their role is, because every educator can tell the story of the great things happening in their learning communities, right? 

Jerry Almendarez  

Yeah

Lainie Rowell  

And I'm putting you on the spot here, we can always cut this out if you're not comfortable to answer this, but like, what would be your your first step? What would you suggest they do? There, they've just created their account. They're like, I don't know what to start posting, what do you look for when you're thinking about things to post. 

Jerry Almendarez  

Two things. One is make sure that your professional account is your professional account. And that you do your best not to put any personal opinions or personal pictures or posts on your professional account. I tell my people, your professional account is like your resume. It is a digital resume now. And so yes, you can give a hard copy of a resume. But when I get a resume, I take that name and I Google it, or I'll do a internet search and see what other experiences or what other information is out there. And if I find the social media feeds of potential applicants, or teachers, then I'll go on there and see what they're posting. And what that tells me as a superintendent is what are your professional values? What do you highlight? What is important to you? I can see different principals throughout the country, posting a lot of pictures of athletic events, and very little of what's going on in the classroom. Or there are other people that post a lot of pictures of them. So that demonstrates what they value. And then there are those the ones that really catch my attention is that student engagement and capturing the activities, the enthusiasm, and the uniqueness of what is happening in their setting, it could be in a department, it could be in a classroom, it could be in a district, you know, those are really my attention getters. And when something captures my attention, I want to know more. And that's what I tell my people is look for those special moments. Take as many pictures as you can, knowing that you may only use two of them. But really try and capture those special moments, and then push that out for the world to see. And it really is the world

Lainie Rowell  

Brilliant! "What you post is what you value." 

Jerry Almendarez  

Correct. 

Lainie Rowell  

I want to savor that for a minute. Because that is so true. It's so true. And it's interesting, you're talking about like keeping the professional professional. You know, when I was in the classroom, I would tell the kids like if you don't want grandma to see it, mom or dad to see it. If there's anyone that you care about that if they saw this, you would be embarrassed, ashamed, hurt, upset, you know, like, just don't do it. And like you said, the world will see it as soon as anyone in the world will see it, including college admissions officers, I got to preview a book Brand Up by Stacey Cohen that will come out in the spring. And I got to read an endorsement for that. And she's talking about how important it is that kids start to build that online presence in a way that would represent them well, and I love what you said what you post is what you value. And so when a college admissions officer is trying to determine, you know, and they spend, I think, very little time on each application, I think it's less than like 10 minutes on each application if I remember correctly. So a lot of times they go to the socials because they know everything's all super polished on the application. So let's go see what this person's like and what they're going to bring to our learning community if they were accepted. It's a lesson we all have to learn and sometimes relearn.

Jerry Almendarez  

You know, and there's a lot of fear, people have a lot of fear, you know, and there's so much, you know, the topic being gratitude, there's so much to be shared in a positive way. But there are also those negative aspects of it. But if you do a good job at it, the credibility that you build as a professional will far outweigh those negative comments that come those naysayers and I get them myself, you know, I get them and I'll respond in appropriate manner to some and some will just let sit there. And usually what happens when, when I just let them sit there as my, my followers will start to jump in and make comments that kind of go into a little bit more detail as to why things are happening, or why they're not happening. And I just stay out of it. And I think over time, people just have to become familiar, everybody is pretty much in that space already. And if they're not in that space, than they need to really reflect because the research out there indicates that 80% of adults primary source of information is coming from the social media platforms. So if you're professional, and you're not operating in that environment, you're missing 80% of your target market. And so you know, what other options is that gonna give you if you're only operating with a 20% of your potential. And so, you know, we just have to learn how to embrace it, the technology and the platforms are changing so rapidly. So what's what's hot today, Twitter is a good example of maybe not as hot a month from now or two months from now. So what are their emerging trends that allow us to get on platforms that are are more positive or precieved to be more positive and more professional. And so that's why I always have my finger on the pulse with people like you, and other rivers, mentors that I call, because, you know, I need to know what those trends are happening. So I can continue to tell our story, in a good way.

Lainie Rowell  

Yeah, and we're all kind of learning it together, right? Shout out to Bri Hodges, our mutual friend, she was the one who kind of pushed me more towards Instagram, I was so heavily invested in Twitter, and she's like, you gotta go over to the Gram. I love social media, I see a lot of positive in it. But I'm trying to have this, you know, appropriate combination of how much time I spent on that. And the IRL people that in real life people. 

Jerry Almendarez  

Yes

Lainie Rowell  

But it is it's constantly evolving. And I do I look to you, I look to many to figure out like, Okay, well, what's happening in this landscape? And where should I be now? Where can I be connecting and learning and sharing and showing gratitude? Where are the best spaces for that? 

Jerry Almendarez  

The other thing too, that like, that have migrated towards with intention is, if we have initiatives within the district and a school site, particular principle starts to capture these special moments like with our graduate profile, I'm going to retweet that or I'm going to comment on that and say, Wow, what an amazing job, you know, elementary school or Mr. Principal, you know, keep up the good work that creates a sense of... and other principals will see it. other community members will see it. And there have been times when I have either retweeted or reposted or made comments on certain platforms. And I have parents coming up to me and saying, How come I don't see this at my child's school? Or other principals will say, How come you don't like my stuff? You know, and so, you know, with intention through my lens, what I try to do is identify those practices that are aligned with the standards, and then really highlight those practices and that student engagement, and then reposted or retweeted or comment out on it.

Lainie Rowell  

Yeah. And you were talking about kind of promoting the use of the hashtags, which is really helpful, right? So my friend, Dave Burgess, taught me the "stock and staulk", so "stock it" like, put good things in it so people will want to like come and see what's happening in that hashtag, and then "staulk it" as in like, watch what's happening in it. So you're like putting stuff in it, but you're also stalking it to see like, what's happening in there. Hopefully, Dave doesn't mind me sharing this, this was a private conversation, but I'm sure he's fine. But so that idea of like, if you're giving the team's suggestions for hashtags, or I encourage them to use hashtags, and then tell you what hashtags you can be following them and that way, you're gonna have all that transparency and be able to promote further.

Jerry Almendarez  

And it creates a like a tidal wave of gratitude or good positive stories that come out because ideas that are posted by one site, that site is a brand ambassador doesn't have to be the administrative team, but the brand ambassador could say, oh, my God, we're doing that or Oh, my God, we did something similar. Check this out. And so now it creates this professional competition that people are trying to tell their stories and in some cases, outdo each other when, when they're, they're capturing these special moments

Lainie Rowell  

That yeah, "we're great too"

Jerry Almendarez  

Healthy competition.

Lainie Rowell  

It isn't healthy competition, because it's for the good. It's for the good of the learning communities. It's for the good of actually connecting with the community outside of the physical campus. So you said brand ambassadors, can you tell us a little bit more about that? 

Jerry Almendarez  

Yes. So a few years ago, I had an individual in my office, and she was working directly with me. And she had an idea, Lynette White, to work with our school sites, because she was helping me with the social media push throughout the district. And it became overwhelming for her to do it for such a large district. So she sat me down and she said, Hey, I got a plan. What do you think about creating this brand ambassador program? Tell me more. So we're reaching out to the school sites, various departments and asking for volunteers that wanted to learn more about the social media platforms. And that would help volunteer to help us tell our story. So we have parents, students, employees, certificate and classified, over 80 individuals district-wide, that have expressed an interest in being trained in these various social media platforms. So we pull them in quarterly, and we pulled them in at the beginning of the year. We gave them their charge, we have our board priorities, our graduate profile. And we intentionally asked them to look for things that were aligned with the board priorities and components of our graduate profile, and ask them to capture those moments, and then #SAUSDgraduateprofile, or #SAUSDboardpriorities. And the reason why we asked him to focus on those areas is because we have a lot of community leaders that put a lot of time and effort into supporting the district. And we wanted them to see the work that their work being actually carried out at the school sites. And so every opportunity we get as a district, every presentation we do to our community, we will highlight these hashtags. So our community partners see that their support for our district and our kids and our families are actually being carried out in the community. And so we're just so blessed, they are so excited. We meet with them four times a year, the first meeting is to give them the charge. The second meeting is to see how they're doing check in what support or resources do you need. The third time is again, another check in. And then the end of the year is a celebration.

Lainie Rowell  

Oh, I love that. And now, you mentioned community partners. I imagine that not only does you making the invisible, visible helpful for current partners, I would imagine it's helpful for future partnerships. Does that does that pan out?

Jerry Almendarez  

Well, it is and we get we we started getting phone calls, emails and knocks on our door asking for participation. And it's a nice thing. It's puts a smile on our face when people say, hey, you know, you guys are doing some really cool things. Can we be a part of that? We have to be selective because we do have a large number of community partners. But it is a good feeling. I'll tell you, I'm a prideful superintendent, when I walk into different spaces and people come up to me and say, Hey, what do you guys do in Santa Ana, because, you know, it's just amazing. And it's not me, per se. You know, the people in the schools in the classrooms, the support staff, they're the miracle workers, all I'm doing is capturing those moments and pushing them out on the platforms that we have in providing opportunities and space for our employees to capture those moments and to push it out.

Lainie Rowell  

I'm glad I hear you taking some credit. Not probably enough, but I do feel like you, you're good at not doing it in a completely self effacing way. But you're saying like I create the conditions, right? Like that's, and that's important. You're that you are the leader of the entire district. That's the model set. You said, Now, I'm gonna I'm gonna tell you one little quick story. I'm going to be very vague about it because I don't have permission to give too much away. So I'm gonna be a little cryptic. But my son plays soccer and I'm sitting there talking with another one of his teammates, mom's turns out, she is an employee in your district. And I said, and I just started gushing over you immediately, of course, oh, my gosh, Jerry is amazing. Like, I love I can see all the great things happening in your district. He's done such a good job about this. And what was really cool is she goes, there's even more than he does that you don't get to see because... so she tells the story. I'm gonna be a little bit vague, but you might know who I'm talking about. That there was a student on campus, a little boy who just was so starstruck by you because he'd heard so many good things and then you came on campus. He saw you and then you will like kept in touch with this kid over the years, I think you even went to this person's graduation. Do you you know who are talking about? 

Jerry Almendarez  

Yeah, yeah. 

Lainie Rowell  

So I love this story because it was like, it just, it just validated what I already knew about you that you're a genuine, authentic person. And that it's not just what's happening on the socials that this is happening, even when people aren't looking. And so that was like a really lovely thing.

Jerry Almendarez  

And those are, those are really special, special moments that are private moments, you know what I mean? Yeah, that that I don't promote on social media, because it's not about looking at me or looking at this situation. It's that genuine, just that genuine spark that keeps me going. And when I encounter and there have been many, many more situations like that, interactions that I have, when I walk on campuses, that students come up to me and just say, the most heartfelt conversations with me that just tugs at my heart, that I take pictures with them, but I don't necessarily post them. Because I know it was a genuine moment with the students. And I do keep in touch with a lot of kids. And I just, you know, I'm so blessed to be here. God works in mysterious ways. And I'm here for a reason. And, you know, I'm going to continue doing the work that I can do as long as I can do it, but it is a blessing to be here. And I'm just moments like that keep me going.

Lainie Rowell  

Yeah, well, and I hope I didn't divulge too much. I know more details than I shared. But I was trying to honor the privacy of like, everyone involved. And I just, it was just, again, such a validation for how I already know you're amazing. And then I'm like, okay, just random person that I just meet, like, we mentioned your name, and then we're in the story. And I'm like, okay, yeah, this guy's amazing.

Jerry Almendarez  

Let me show you something here. So this was a gift to me from that person that you're talking about.

Lainie Rowell  

Oh, my goodness. Can I describe it a little bit for our listeners? Okay, so that is a beautiful drawing? Well, actually, I'll let you describe it if that's okay.

Jerry Almendarez  

Well, he is it is a beautiful drawing. But he drew a picture of me. He framed it with a mat and put it in a beautiful frame and wanted to make sure that I got it. Because, you know, we were friends. And so it was it was a pleasant surprise, when I heard he was doing this for me.

Lainie Rowell  

Oh, my friends that was not staged, I just happened to tell the story. And he busted the frame out like within half a second. That was amazing. And just again, validation.

Jerry Almendarez  

I keep it here as a reminder of why I do what I do is difficult as times as this job can be. And as things happen throughout the district, I keep these reminders in my office to remind me that it's bigger than any issue that I'm facing out there and that I'm here for the kids and in the community.

Lainie Rowell  

Yeah, I will say I do know more employees of Santa Ana Unified. In fact, one was just telling me how what you do has made it into school site meetings and how there's just this, you know, the recognition, appreciation, the gratitude that just emanates from you, that you model that you like I said, empower others to do it just it really happens. And for that to happen in such a big district is quite an accomplishment. So I don't know that I've appropriately gushed over you because I feel like I could spend the whole time just talking about how awesome I think you are. But I just want you to know that you are appreciated. And every time I come across someone who knows you, they're like, Oh, my He's amazing. I'm like, I know. You're very welcome. All right, my friend, I know that you are a very busy person, I've got to get you going. Any final words, before we get on to our shout out anything you would love people to know,

Jerry Almendarez  

The job that we do is already as difficult as it is. It is important that we we do our best to have fun to realize that it's okay to make mistakes as long as we learn from those mistakes, take risks. We owe it to our kids, and we owe it to the community and to the families. And then constantly kind of reflected think about what is the future of education look like for for our little ones. What can I do as an adult as an educational leader to be a positive contribution to that future? I'll leave it at that.

Lainie Rowell  

Perfect, could not have been said better. I truly appreciate that. I know our listeners do too. So this is the part where people get mad at me because I asked you to give a shout out and I'm particularly nervous with you, Jerry, because you are like really good at amplifying everyone. So I don't know if this is going to be quick at all, but we're going to try, right?

Jerry Almendarez  

This will be quick and for reasons that you'll understand but I just want to give a big shout out to my wife 32 years of marriage. You know she is an educator as well and She has really dedicated and her profession is the family. And she's oftentimes told me you know what my responsibility, my priority is here to take care of my grandchildren and, and the rest of our family. She goes you do you do you and I will, we will be here to support you. And so I could not be the person that I am or do the things that I do without 100% support from her. And and I just want to shout out to her and say I am so thankful. And we are highschool sweethearts. We've been married for 32 years and you know, it feels like just yesterday. 

Lainie Rowell  

So what a lovely shout out. Do you mind sharing her first name? 

Jerry Almendarez  

Monique.

Lainie Rowell  

Monique. Oh, Monique. Well, thank you, for all you do to support Jerry. And, you know, just from a couple conversations we've had like I get the sense this is a very beautiful partnership and that you both support each other in many, many ways. So that's the best we can hope for right? All right, my friend. So I think it's going to be obvious to everyone that you are not hard to find on the socials. But what's the best way to to find you? What platforms do you prefer?

Jerry Almendarez  

I am on Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, and Instagram. Those probably the best way to just type in Jerry Almendarez and Santa Ana Unified School District and then all my various platforms will come up.

Lainie Rowell  

Perfect. I will also drop them in the show notes so people can be sure to catch up with you that way. Jerry, I so appreciate your time. And I just again, I don't feel like I got to gush over you enough. But I hope you feel how much I appreciate you, how grateful I am for you and I know so many people are so thank you for all you do.

Jerry Almendarez  

I appreciate that and thank you for all you do as well. 

Lainie Rowell  

You're too kind. Alright, thank you all for listening. Have a great rest of your day evening morning. I don't know whenever you're listening to this. Thanks, everyone.

Lainie Rowell   

If you're grateful for this episode, please be sure to subscribe today. And if you're feeling really thankful, please go to Apple podcasts to submit a review so other educators know the value. One last thing. Please connect on social media using the hashtag #EvolvingWithGratitude to share your gratitude stories.