Shownotes:

What helps us move through fear instead of getting stuck in it? New York Times bestselling author, animal advocate, and mother Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt shares how love, patience, and trust can turn fear into confidence. In this heartfelt conversation, we talk about her new children’s book Kat and Brandy, the healing bond between animals and kids, and the power of kindness and courage to make the world a little better.

Thrive Global Article:

Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt on “Kat and Brandy” and the Courage to Face Our Fears

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About Our Guest:

Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt is aNew York Timesbest-sellingauthor, mother, and host ofthepodcast.BDA Baby.A passionate animal advocate, Katherine works as an Ambassador for BestFriends Animal Society (bestfriends.org) and the ASPCA (aspca.org). She is a Global Ambassadorfor the Special Olympics. Katherine lives with her family in Los Angeles.

About Lainie:

Lainie Rowell is a bestselling author, award-winning educator, and TEDx speaker. She is dedicated to human flourishing, focusing on community building, emotional intelligence, and honoring what makes each of us unique and dynamic through learner-driven design. She earned her degree in psychology and went on to earn both a post-graduate credential and a master's degree in education. An international keynote speaker, Lainie has presented in 41 states as well as in dozens of countries across 4 continents. As a consultant, Lainie’s client list ranges from Fortune 100 companies like Apple and Google to school districts and independent schools. Learn more at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠linktr.ee/lainierowell⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

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Transcript:

[00:00:00] Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt: What's the kind of book that I wanna read after a long day that my kids are really gonna enjoy?

And that also has a positive message that teaches kids about something. 'Cause that's always really important to me. And also that I keep in mind like what are the kinds of conversations that are gonna come up when reading this book? And also when you're done reading the book, like what's a great prompt there?

'cause it's one thing as parents to be like, let's sit down today and talk about things that make you scared, and how you overcome those fears and how you work through them. And then to read a story about a character who works their way through their fears and is able to come out the other side feeling excited about having done that.

Being able to have your kids learn from that, it just lands differently for them I have found.

Welcome to the Evolving with Gratitude podcast. I'm Lainie Rowell, and I'm thankful you're here. Let's live in bold gratitude to optimize happiness, relationships, and performance.

What helps us move through fear instead of getting stuck in it? For a New York Times bestselling author, animal Advocate mother and DBA baby podcast host. Katherine Schwartzenegger Pratt. The answer begins with the bond between animals and children and the resilience that grows through it. Her newest children's book, cat and Brandy tells the story of a young girl and her rescue pony who learned to trust one another.

Showing how love and patience can turn fear into confidence. Catherine is an absolute delight. And I can't wait for you to hear her tell the story of Cat and Brandy, and we also talk about other things like forgiveness and motherhood. So enjoy.

[00:01:43] Lainie Rowell: Katherine, I am so thrilled to have this conversation and just welcome.

[00:01:48] Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt: Thank you. Thank you for having me.

[00:01:50] Lainie Rowell: You are lifetime author and I'm very excited you've got a new book coming out. And I just have to tell you, I have so much respect and admiration for people who can write nonfiction and then also children's books like that,

that's some traversing you're doing there, so kudos to you.

[00:02:07] Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt: It's fun.

Thank you. Yeah, it's definitely fun to be able to do like a mixture of adult and children's books and it's funny 'cause like my first children's book I did before I even had kids of my own, so it's wild to see just like how much my process and also like the way that I put together a children's book has changed after having like a now built in audience of like my children to run things by. So it's like a little test group.

[00:02:36] Lainie Rowell: You got the focus group right at home.

[00:02:38] Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt: Exactly.

[00:02:39] Lainie Rowell: You can just, how's this feel? Well, so I have older kids. My kids are teen and tween and they're a tough audience, so Yeah, like they're, they're really good to run things by.

They're gonna be completely honest and very good at humbling me.

[00:02:53] Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt: Yep, same. Me too.

[00:02:55] Lainie Rowell: Well, let's talk about your latest Kat and Brandy, and could you tell us a little bit about it and what inspired you to tell this story now?

[00:03:05] Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt: Well, I've had this idea for this story for several years.

It's based off of my friendship and my connection that I had with my childhood horse growing up. And I always knew that it was a special story that I wanted to do something with. And it feels very fitting that it's. That the, something that I ended up doing with it is a children's book, especially now that I have three kids of my own that love animals and love to be around animals.

So I, I feel like in my life I have greatly been impacted by the presence of animals and just their healing power and nature. And it's always something that I've loved being able to talk about and also just shine a light on the importance of children growing up around animals. And that can be like a goldfish, it can be a rabbit, a dog, a cat, any kind of animal.

But just what that teaches kids about unconditional love from an early age as well as responsibility and routine and discipline. And I really learned all of those things from the presence of animals. So I wanted to be able to have an animal, be a part of this story, but also have the story really be one that talks about overcoming your fears and bravery and courage. And it was a story that, you know, is based off of my own experience, working through my fears of a horse and overcoming my fears, tapping into my inner bravery and courage, and doing that with the support of my mom in a shared activity outdoors, which was really powerful.

And the confidence and the pride that comes when a child is able to work through that. And it was a story that I just wanted to tell from, from my own experience, but also be able to have it be a story that's part of people's story time routine or bedtime routine with the awareness, now that I have kids of my own, of the conversations that come from reading these stories to kids.

So I always try to keep that in mind when I'm writing my story. I'm like, how can I entertain the kids and also the parents? And then also keep in mind the conversations that come from reading books like this. So. That that's kind of my hope with this story is that it's one that sparks conversation about overcoming your fears and and and courage and bravery.

[00:05:31] Lainie Rowell: It definitely comes through and it really comes through how it's like a process of building that trust along with getting to the point of courage, right. Or, or overcoming and, and being brave in a time where it's, it's really scary. That totally comes through and I hear you about like that is the challenge with the children's book is that you want to entertain and educate both the kids and the adults.

[00:05:57] Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt: Exactly. It's a tricky balance. It's like, you know. How do you write something and also, you know, work with an illustrator that understands your vision for something that you think is aesthetically beautiful as an adult. And then also that kids really pay so much attention to illustrations and they ask questions about drawings and they get lost in the drawing.

So when I was introduced to Petra Brown through her other books that my kids loved reading, I knew that it was something that would be like a dream for me to be able to work with her. And so I feel really lucky that she, you know, chose to work together on this book 'cause she did an incredible job, not only drawing illustrations that

we're so amazing with animals, but also with humans as well.

[00:06:44] Lainie Rowell: Yeah, it's really beautiful. Let's talk a little bit about the animal component here. Because this is a big part of your life and I feel like that's really shines through. I mean, definitely there's this story and you can feel the connection between you.

And was Brandi the real name of the horse? Yeah, it was right.

[00:07:01] Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt: Yeah. It was, a pony named Brandy came into my life totally unexpected and just like kind of the story in the book. She came with a history and a past that wasn't you know, ideal for a lot of people, but I found as a young girl to be really intriguing and definitely you know, sparked curiosity in me to learn more about her. And it was really through a lot of time and patience and just sitting in the presence of one another that allowed her and I to gain trust for one another and then also for me to be able to, you know, be around her as as someone new in her life.

And she came in, you know, as a lot of us do to this connection with a past and with fears and with, stories that she had experienced that made her not necessarily the most trusting of animals. And so I kind of made it my goal to gain her trust and to have her be comfortable around me. And it was an interesting thing now that I look back on it, to have like a, you know, elementary school girl be really interested in like that being my goal.

But, I'm really blessed that I was able to experience that and took a lot of time and energy and practice just being around her and getting her to be comfortable, and I think also gave me a lot of confidence to be able to go into horseback riding in a totally different way that I definitely would not have had I not had this experience with her.

So. Worked out. Yeah.

[00:08:44] Lainie Rowell: I love how you described that, kind of that relationship building. And I think about my family got a dog a year ago and it wasn't a baby. It was like a almost 2-year-old dog. And the, the process of going through to build the trust with that animal, it happens to be like kind of a skittish breed to begin with.

Italian greyhounds, I think are bird. Yeah. Known for not being like the most trusting off the bat. So it's been so good for my kids and for me to really nurture that relationship. And then just that connection you have with animals is so special, and I, I'll be honest, there was a part of me that was like, I don't know if I wanna take on a dog.

But it's so, again, healing, but it's also just really important for our emotional wellbeing, I think, to have that presence.

[00:09:30] Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt: I mean, there's a reason that people have emotional support animals and also therapy animals, because animals really do have that power of just like an unspoken presence when they're around you of just not caring. You know what your job is, how much money you make, what you did that day that you think is really cool or not cool. They really just like pay attention to who you are and who you show up as. And I think that that's such a great lesson to be able to really instill in people of all ages, whether you know, you're in your twenties, thirties, forties, fifties, sixties, whatever, seventies, eighties, but also especially children, to just allow them to be in the presence of an animal that just wants to be around them or wants to take their time with them for who they are, and they can sense so much. You know, you can't force an animal to do certain things or to like have the love that you want them to give you. And they really do give you unconditional love when you're able to show up as, as who you are naturally and authentically.

And I think that that's such a huge gift and also really important message to be able to instill in children.

[00:10:45] Lainie Rowell: Yeah. And when you're talking about like, they don't care what you did earlier today or what your job is like, they have this, this appreciation for the present moment in a way that I think we as humans struggle with.

And I notice like when I'm having like a just sit on the couch time with my dog, he'll just like, look me in the eyes. Yeah. In like a way that, that most humans don't. Right. And it's like, no, no, no. We're here together right now. Like, be with me. Yeah. And I think that's part of why it's so, so soothing, so helpful.

[00:11:14] Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt: Yeah. No, definitely. It's, it's why it's such a healing presence to be around, so.

[00:11:18] Lainie Rowell: Would you be open to talking a little bit about your role as ambassador for Best Friends Animal Society and the A-S-P-C-A?

[00:11:26] Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt: Yeah, I mean, totally. I, I've been working with them for several years now. I adopted my dog, Maverick. 12 years ago, and it really introduced me to a whole world of animal rescue that I had not been as involved in prior to that. And I've always been an animal lover and always wanted to be a voice for the voiceless.

And then learning about the animal rescue world and animal adoption was such an eye-opening experience for me. And I fell in love with the community and also just being able to advocate for animals in a new and different way. And, Maverick has been such a wonderful joy in my life. And also just being able to be introduced to the community of animal rescue has been amazing as well.

And so. I've loved being able to work with both of those organizations and also a lot of really great smaller organizations that are community based and that really do such incredible work to help animals give them a second chance you know, take the time to pair up families with these amazing animals that, you know, maybe didn't get it right in their first home, but have hope to have a great future ahead of them.

And I'm just really excited and proud to be able to, to work with them when I can. And it's been a great experience so far.

[00:12:44] Lainie Rowell: Well, I think that that connection back to Kat and Brandy of just because an animal has maybe not had the best start doesn't mean that we can't have this really rich connection with them.

Yes. And I definitely see that in this important work that you're doing, giving a voice for the voiceless.

[00:13:01] Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt: Thank you.

[00:13:02] Lainie Rowell: Do you wanna talk about any of your other books because again, traversing the fiction and the nonfiction, the children and the adults. I will tell you, I have the Gift of Forgiveness on my nightstand and I

[00:13:14] Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt: Thank you

[00:13:14] Lainie Rowell: and savoring it. These are intense stories, right?

[00:13:18] Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt: Yeah, definitely.

[00:13:19] Lainie Rowell: So I'm really, definitely trying to, I'm really trying to absorb the stories. Yeah. And the wisdom from you and from the people whose stories you're sharing. So was there a particular reason you decided to go down the road of forgiveness, which is such a nuanced, complex, challenging topic in my opinion.

[00:13:37] Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt: Yeah, no, it's definitely a challenging topic. I think it's a topic that all of us come face to face with at some point in our lives, and most of us have a challenging time encountering it and also deciding how to have it be present or not present in our lives.

It was something that was really interesting to me. I have struggled with forgiveness. I've been able to practice forgiveness and then also you know, for me, I, I know that it's something that I will struggle with at various points in my life. And I, I just became really interested in how differently we all experience forgiveness and then also practice or don't practice forgiveness.

It was something that was, I was at a point in my life where I was really struggling with my ability to forgive and found it really. Interesting that whenever I would talk to someone about the subject of forgiveness or just mention the word forgiveness, how people's faces changed. People went to a certain time where either they were forgiven or they had the option to forgive someone or not forgive someone.

And the stories that kind of came from those conversations were so empowering to me and and just amazing to learn from and draw experience from. And it really helped me on my forgiveness journey to be able to hear how other people worked through their forgiveness experiences. And I felt like I wanted to write a book about it because I was hearing all these incredible stories and gaining all this amazing information and wisdom and tips for being able to practice forgiveness and I wanted to put it in a book to be able to give to people for when they feel like they're struggling with forgiveness or they're feeling like they wanna hear other people's experiences to decide how they wanna respond to a certain situation in their life. And and so that's how the book kind of came to be.

And I'm grateful that you're taking the time to read it. It's filled with a lot of different people that have all had very unique experiences where forgiveness has been something that's come up in their life. And most people in the book have practiced forgiveness and there are some people in there who've chosen to not practice forgiveness, which I felt was important

'cause there are a lot of people who don't want to forgive and that's okay. I think the, the goal with the book was to show that. There's no one way to forgive and there's no right way or wrong way. There's only your way. And so for some people it's an, an instant that they're able to forgive some people a couple weeks, some people a couple years or tons of years, and then other people never.

So it's a fascinating topic that I love talking about still to this day, so.

[00:16:26] Lainie Rowell: I'm so glad you put it out there. I feel like the title has layers because the gift of forgiveness, it's like the gift we give ourselves. So, yes, and and I appreciate the grace that you give that, like some people, that won't be their path and that's fine.

But I think that it's like a gift of these stories and, and also the gift forgiveness is for us. So,

[00:16:48] Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt: yeah. No, it definitely is.

[00:16:50] Lainie Rowell: It's hard, and I hear you, that it's like a lifelong thing. It's not like you just nail forgiveness and you're like, okay, I'm set for life. Like I know. Totally rocking the forgiveness.

[00:16:59] Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt: Yeah, no, it comes back up. It's like a tricky one.

[00:17:03] Lainie Rowell: And the way that you showed different stories, that really was helpful to me because a lot of those stories are really I mean, they're all extreme, like. Wow, if this happened to them, like it really makes me think like, maybe I don't need to be so petty about the person who cuts me off in the in the carpool lane, or, you know.

[00:17:22] Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt: Exactly. Yeah.

[00:17:22] Lainie Rowell: There's some real tough stuff going on out there, so I really loved it. And I appreciate that you have this incredible range with the fiction, the nonfiction, writing for adults, writing for kids. Although when you're writing for kids, you're still writing for adults. That's, that's very clear.

[00:17:37] Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt: Yeah. In a different way. But yes, I keep my adults in mind here. 'cause the amount of books I find myself reading with my kids than I'm like, no one thought of me. This is, I mean, tough to get through. So it was important to me that I was like. What's the kind of book that I wanna read after a long day that my kids are really gonna enjoy?

And that also has a positive message that teaches kids about something. 'cause that's always really important to me. And also that I keep in mind like what are the kinds of conversations that are gonna come up when reading this book? And also when you're done reading the book, like what's a great prompt there?

Being able to have your kids learn from that, it just lands differently for them I have found. So that was very important to me.

[00:18:44] Lainie Rowell: And one of the cool things I find about children's books, and I'm like a huge literacy advocate. My background is education. And this was like one of the things I really leaned into as an educator is reading to your kid every day.

Yeah. And one of the beautiful things about children's books, especially picture books, is that kids like to read them over and over again.

[00:19:04] Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt: So many times, I mean, the amount of times that I have read the same book to my kids, I mean obviously for their brains, the repetition part of it is such a key part of the development.

And also just like processing something or remembering something. So there's, you know, that scientific part of it that's fascinating. And then there's also just like the really fun and sweet part of your child wanting to sit with you and read something over and over again. That is really just like a tender moment and really just like a sweet part of parenthood that I think is so special so...

[00:19:40] Lainie Rowell: It's such a beautiful ritual. It's a ritual in my house and my kids have gotten older, and so now it's like we're reading side by side. Sometimes we still read the same books together. It's really fun. So thank you for writing books that we adults want to hear too, especially if we're hearing it.

50 times.

[00:19:56] Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt: Exactly. I know, I feel you. So that was a, a big goal.

[00:20:01] Lainie Rowell: Would you be up for sharing about the podcast? So before, during, and after baby.

[00:20:06] Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt: Yes., BDA baby. Mm-hmm. So BDA Baby is a it, well it started actually as an Instagram live that I started when those were a really popping thing you know, in the height of the lockdown for the COVID pandemic, and that's when I had my first daughter and felt really isolated and lonely and felt like I was craving this sense of community that I had always envisioned being around me when I entered into my chapter of motherhood.

And that obviously didn't exist during the pandemic, and I was going to so many different places online and on social media and different, group chats to get this support of, you know, what life was like postpartum. And I'm really lucky that I am really close to my mom so I talk to her about a lot.

And also, you know, she's like, I don't know any of the products anymore. I can't remember what it was like when I had you, I don't know what this exact thing was. So I really was, you know, searching for that community and I couldn't find it and so I really just decided to start it on my own.

And I started with one Instagram live with some friends, and also just some people who were experiencing similar things to what I was experiencing, or I was wondering about this part of breastfeeding or this part of postpartum, or this part of how your relationship changes after you have a baby.

And really just decided to try and enlist the time and also just the wisdom from different experts and also people experiencing it real time and the community over the past couple years that has been built in this BDA community is such a special one where people feel involved in asking questions, asking to hear from certain people, and it's been such a blessing in my life to be able to go through three postpartum experiences and pregnancies and toddlerhood and now young childhood.

With this community by my side, and to be able to learn as much as I've learned about in the past couple years from people just saying, Hey, can you talk to this person that I didn't know anything about? Or, hey, can you talk about this subject matter that I didn't know as much about? And ask their questions and be able to learn alongside them.

And get support and the whole goal is really just to create a community and conversation so people feel less alone in their journey. And it can be the journey of choosing to not have kids or the journey to have your first child. And it could be the journey to have your fifth child. It's really, for so many different people and different walks of life.

And it's now a podcast and I'm really excited and always still eager to have new conversations and also repeat guests because there are some subjects like Sex After Baby that people always wanna know about. Yeah and just to learn about so many different things from freezing your eggs to fertility, to breastfeeding, to pelvic floor therapy, to relationships evolving and changing and people choosing, you know, maybe not to have kids or how to be a good aunt or uncle or you know, support system and endometriosis or PCOS.

So there's so many different things that we talk about and that I feel really lucky to be able to have conversations that. Hopefully help people feel like they're seen and given advice or tips to help them in their journey.

[00:23:50] Lainie Rowell: It's a beautiful community and I love that you are bringing in experts, giving other people access to these experts that they might not otherwise be able to, and the, and the range of topics is amazing.

[00:24:00] Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt: I know it's a crazy range. Definitely.

[00:24:02] Lainie Rowell: Okay, I'm looking at the clock. One last question?

[00:24:05] Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt: Yes.

[00:24:05] Lainie Rowell: And that is what is one thing you just really wanna make sure people know from you? It could be like something you wanna shout from the rooftops. Just something you're like dying for people to know.

And it could be about Kat and Brandy. It could be something you haven't shared yet.

[00:24:20] Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt: I mean, I think for me right now, in this season of life, I think the most important thing when I, you know, connect with people is really just finding ways to put kindness and good out into the world.

It's really important I think in whatever role you're in, in your life. And for me, motherhood being the primary role for me that I focus on and is my priority. And whether it's with my interactions with my family and my children and my husband and my extended family, or with how I choose to put work out like Kat and Brandy, my goal is always to

try to find ways to put kindness out there and also put good out there. And I feel like this book is a great example of that because it's really me trying to put something out there that hopefully will allow someone to feel seen in their fear or their struggle to overcome a fear. And that will hopefully allow someone to feel like they have the confidence to work through their fears at a young age and have great conversation and, the books that I put out there are really with the intention to make the world a better place in whatever way it does. And also, you know that if someone reads that book and says, okay, I feel confident to overcome my fear, oh, I feel like I relate to the character in the book, or the horse in the book, or the parent in the book, that that book will have served its purpose.

And that's really my hope for this. And also just my hope for the world right now, and anyone listening is just always coming back to the importance of kindness and trying to do something that makes the world or makes those around you better and a better place to live in.

[00:26:25] Lainie Rowell: Katherine, you're doing it.

You are a bright light shining, and let me just tell you, when I tell people who I have coming up to interview, I have never seen so many faces light up. And the immediate response is, I love her. Aw. And I just wanted to pass that on to you. That's, and I, I hope you feel that love. I'm sure you do. 'cause it's coming from all directions.

[00:26:45] Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt: But thank you.

[00:26:46] Lainie Rowell: I really appreciate this time. And people listening, the book is out. Kat and Brandy, grab your copy right now and I'll make sure to put a link in the show notes. So Katherine, I am so grateful for this time that you've given. Thank you very much for being here.

[00:27:02] Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt: Thank you. Thank you for this convo.

It was so fun. And I'm really grateful. And thank you for supporting the book.

[00:27:07] Lainie Rowell: Oh, we're here for you. Alright, my friend. Thank you so much.

[00:27:10] Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt: Thank you.

Bye.

Okay, bye-bye.

[00:27:13] Lainie Rowell: Thank you all for listening.