Shownotes:
Are you stuck in performance mode—and calling it growth?
In this episode, Eduardo Briceño unpacks The Performance Paradox—and what’s keeping so many of us from actually getting better.
We talk about the key mindset shift high achievers need, why not all mistakes are created equal, and how to lead with both humility and ambition.
If you want to grow on purpose—not just perform—this one’s for you.
🎧 Tune in and break the cycle.
Thrive Global Article:
About Our Guest:
Eduardo Briceño is a global keynote speaker and facilitator who guides many of the world’s leading companies in developing cultures of continuous improvement, innovation, and high performance. His TED talk, “How To Get Better At The Things You Care About,” and his TEDx talk, “The Power of Belief,” have been viewed more than ten million times. His book, The Performance Paradox: Turning the Power of Mindset into Action, won multiple awards. His work has been featured in Harvard Business Review, Big Think, Business Insider, Entrepreneur, Fast Company, Forbes, Inc., Quartz, and others.
Earlier in his career, Eduardo was the co-founder and CEO of Mindset Works, the pioneer in growth mindset development services, which he started with Stanford professor Carol Dweck and which he led for over a decade. Prior to that, he was a venture capital investor with the Sprout Group and served on several for-profit and non-profit boards. Before that, he was an investment banking analyst with Credit Suisse. He is a Pahara-Aspen Fellow, a member of the Aspen Institute’s Global Leadership Network, and an inductee in the Happiness Hall of Fame.
Originally from Caracas, Venezuela, Eduardo holds bachelor’s degrees in economics and engineering from the University of Pennsylvania, as well as an MBA and M.A. in education from Stanford University. Most importantly, he continues to enjoy lifelong learning every day.
About Lainie:
Lainie Rowell is a bestselling author, award-winning educator, and TEDx speaker. She is dedicated to human flourishing, focusing on community building, emotional intelligence, and honoring what makes each of us unique and dynamic through learner-driven design. She earned her degree in psychology and went on to earn both a post-graduate credential and a master's degree in education. An international keynote speaker, Lainie has presented in 41 states as well as in dozens of countries across 4 continents. As a consultant, Lainie’s client list ranges from Fortune 100 companies like Apple and Google to school districts and independent schools. Learn more at linktr.ee/lainierowell.
Website - LainieRowell.com
Instagram - @LainieRowell
LinkedIn - @LainieRowell
X/Twitter - @LainieRowell
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Transcript:
[00:01:52] Lainie Rowell: Well Eduardo, welcome to the podcast. So happy to have you here.
[00:01:56] Eduardo Briceño: Great to be here. Thank you, Lainey.
[00:01:58] Lainie Rowell: I mean, there's a lot I could talk to you about and we will, and I'm just a little nervous that I probably overplan for this. I wanna jump in right away with a big idea- let's talk about the performance paradox and why high achievers and high performers don't even realize that this is happening.
[00:02:17] Eduardo Briceño: Sure. Well, so this was happening to me for a long time, and it's still to some extent, and I just see it a lot which is often we have a vague sense that in order to succeed and in order to improve what we have to do is to work hard just to like work really hard.
That's what we're supposed to do, and that's when it's gonna get us to growth and to success. And what I found. We are sometimes not clear on is that that is not the case because the reality is that there's two different forms of hard work. There's hard work to perform and to execute to get things done, as best as we know how, trying to minimize mistakes.
That's what I call the performance zone. And it's really important and it has an important value in our lives, but there's also effort to improve, right? And that's very different. That's what I call the learning zone, and that involves leaping beyond the known it involves doing things that we haven't done before, like doing things that might or might not work, and using strategies that are designed for learning and for innovation rather than for performance and execution.
And both of those things have a place in our lives and our teams and organizations. But just being more deliberate about how we're creating structures and habits in order to engage in both is something that I find the people I serve and that certainly I have benefited from kind of thinking and working on.
You asked about performance paradox. That's the kind of counterintuitive reality that if we're constantly performing and that's all we're doing, our performance suffers. Actually our performance is fine for the immediate term. Like if we wanna maximize our immediate performance, the performance zone is fine, but then we stagnate, right?
We stay at that level as opposed to getting better over time and getting higher performance over time.
[00:03:57] Lainie Rowell: So you really need to be going between these two forms of hard work. They're both hard work, but they're different and we have to be. Intentional, or maybe the right word is strategic about when we're in which form.
Is that fair to say?
[00:04:13] Eduardo Briceño: Absolutely. Yeah. And we can think about them and it does definitely work as alternating between the two. Like for example, in a sports team, when you are in a game, you'll put your best foot forward trying to minimize mistakes. But then in practice you might work on your weaknesses or you might try something that that is you haven't done before, that might lead to mistakes. And, and that's practice. That's the learning zone. But we can also think about integrating these two in what I call learning while doing. Sometimes people are familiar with this term learning by doing, which is fine, it's just, it can be confusing, because if in order to learn, we don't just do, we don't really learn just by doing.
We can learn by doing if we're intentional about how to do in a way that's gonna lead to both learning and performing. So that's why I like to use the term learning while doing which involves doing things differently, trying every things, asking more questions, experimenting more, and we can both get things done and improve over time if we do it intentionally.
[00:05:08] Lainie Rowell: And that really gives us the permission to not be performing at our ultimate right. It like gives us that permission to make mistakes and to know we're growing, right?
[00:05:19] Eduardo Briceño: Absolutely. Yeah. And that I think permission to not be perfect and not be flawless is really important because the idea of perfection is a fixed mindset idea, is the idea that we can't further improve.
And if we have this sense that I can't get better, I just have to be perfect, then that creates a lot of pressure, which equates anxiety, which lowers our performance. It also makes us kind of wanna look good, so hide our uncertainties, hide our questions, and all of that kind of impairs both our learning and our performing.
[00:05:52] Lainie Rowell: This just brings me to how you and I connected, which was your first TEDx talk, which you've done more talks since then, which is so exciting, and I just remember being so excited. I was honored to be ahead of you and very grateful to not be after you, you are not to be followed. You are such a force.
And that brings me to what you were talking about then 13 years ago growth mindset. And you are the co-founder of Mindset Works with Carol Dweck, which a lot of people know for growth mindset. We know you for it too. And so how does this tie to that work? Is it building on growth mindset?
Is that fair to say?
[00:06:33] Eduardo Briceño: It is fair to say, and first of all, like, it's so fun that, I met you when we both did a TEDx talk and your talk was amazing too. And at the time you were talking about technology and connecting kids across distance and those things were, you know, just emerging at the time.
And, it was so fun to have that shared experience together and then to reconnect. But yeah, so the work of the learnings zone the performance zone, definitely built on growth mindset and fixed mindset. And so first, like what is growth mindset? When we ask people what a growth mindset is, we often get lots of different answers.
Like it is working hard or is praising effort or it is experimenting and a growth mindset is none of those things. A growth mindset is not persevering. It is a belief about the nature of human beings, specifically is the belief that we can change, that we can develop over time, our abilities or our qualities.
And the reason that's important is that lots of psychology, research and other research has shown that when we see ourselves as work in progress as people who can continue to shape ourselves and evolve ourselves, not just our teams, organizations, our products, but ourselves, then that helps us become more effective learners.
But a growth mindset is necessary, but not sufficient. Just believing that I can improve doesn't make me a great learner because if I don't know how to improve, I might just try hard and try to do everything perfectly, for example, and we can always get better at learning how learning happens and how we can become better learners.
And that's where the learning zone and performance zone comes in is that's a foundation of understanding. Okay. There's a world of strategies that we can use for performing and for learning, and I can always continue to get better and at understanding them and at implementing them in our lives. And so it's about how do I improve?
It's really important, not just the belief that I can improve.
[00:08:20] Lainie Rowell: I love that you said necessary but not sufficient. And also I think you articulated really, really well the idea of growth mindset is this belief about human nature. And that's really interesting to me, especially, returning to my psychology roots.
And if you look at. Dr. Marty Seligman and the positive psychology movement, I mean, that came about because of a shift that we can improve. We're not fixed. And so that's a real connection. And I think about just in education, how we're really trying to make sure that kids have a growth mindset. But that's, that's the floor, not the ceiling.
Right? That's like essential. And then we also have to do this.
[00:09:03] Eduardo Briceño: Absolutely. Yeah. It's a floor, not the ceiling. I agree. You know, growth mindset is, in a way a beginning of learning. It invites us and enables us to make choices about going on a learning journey. And if we want kids to thrive and to continue to develop a growth mindset and to, you know develop interest and develop great learning habits and grow. We also need to go on the journey ourselves as educators, as adults, as parents of, you know, how can I become a more effective parent and educator and continue to grow and model that and be in collaboration with them.
[00:09:37] Lainie Rowell: So we see that in you know, these spaces of pressure where it's like, whether we're talking about education or maybe it's healthcare or the just corporate workforce, wherever it is, like we're constantly under this pressure to perform, but we really do have to spend time in that learning zone to improve, not just in the performance zone.
How do you help people kind of break that cycle and make that space for improvement?
[00:10:05] Eduardo Briceño: First, I think one thing we can work about is awareness. So like you're saying, there's all this pressure to perform. I think that's true. So why does that happen? One reason it happens is because and you know, this is like the present bias, right?
One of our cognitive bias is to overvalue the present and the immediate protification, the immediate reward and undervalue the future, and the learning zone is an investment in the future. I mean, it's also really fun to explore and to discover, and the learning process can be amazing and it is, for me, an amazing part of life that makes life richer.
But if we're thinking about performance metrics like grades or mastering a skill or improving sales or customer satisfaction, in our work, a learning zone is an investment in helping us improve those performance metrics in the future. And so when we just focus on how can we maximize my results this week or this quarter, then that leads us to just perform.
That's one reason. And then there's a lot of kind of systems in society that lead us to pay attention to the metrics and to the short term performance. And one of the reasons is that it's easier to measure kind of the numbers and the performance and the results. And so that's something that draws us to it.
And then, you know, lots of kind of systems in society that that draws to that. So one is awareness of like reflection of these tendency to get to performance. And then we can think about how do we, like you're saying, how do we build more learning zone in our lives. So first of all, we can ask ourselves if, if we think about is my balance of learning zone performance zone, does it feel right?
One way to think about that is to think about our highest level goals. What do I care most about? What do I wanna get better at, at a high level? And to that we can ask like, why, why, why, why? Like, why do I care? Why is this important? That gets us to the high level goals. And then thinking about,
is it to get to this high level goal, and especially in the longer term, not the immediate term, like in a year, in five years. Does my mix of learning zone performance zone feel right right now? Or is some people are overindex on the learning zone, they realize, but most people tend to overindex on the performance zone.
And then if we want more learning zone, we can for ourselves, we can work on systems and habits. So for example, if I wanna do more regular reflection, I can have a recurring calendar appointment where I make some time to myself with some questions to reflect on. If we are doing a team meeting, we can think about the agenda.
Often the agenda in team meetings are all performance oriented about what do we need to get done by when. And those are really important things. But maybe some teams might have in the agenda a section of the agenda where it's about what have we learned recently that our colleagues could benefit from?
Or what am I trying to, some activity about what am I trying to improve and how can my colleagues support me in that? So how do we change our conversations by changing the structures that kind of performance appraisal through the things we do once a quarter. And for leaders, you know, it's also important to think about how do we frame what we do together when we're in collaboration is part of what we do, working to learn and improve and support each other in our growth. And then regularly reinforcing that, right? When the behaviors that you want to celebrate happen, how do you celebrate them? How do we reward them? And then really important is like modeling, being a learner.
So if for parents, for example, are we just like asking our kids what they learned or are we also talking about what we're grappling with, what we're learning, what we're curious about, so that we're showing up as learners and not as knowers.
[00:13:49] Lainie Rowell: Oh my goodness. There were so many good things. I've got a lot of notes right here. I loved it all. One of the things I loved you said was adding to the agenda, the learning celebration, right? We get so focused in our time synchronously together on let's talk about the stuff that's directly related to performance, but when are we making that space to appreciate that people have stretched themselves, tried something new, and you know, obviously education has just really appreciated the growth mindset but yeah, we do tend to, especially as adults, I think over focus on the performance. And I really don't think the present bias that you mentioned gets enough attention. Thank you for bringing that up, because I do think we think we're working towards something in the future, but we're actually kind of stuck in just, this is what's gonna get me to the performance right now.
Instead of thinking about like, what would one year from now me be happy with, or even our team one year from now, be happiest with, right? Like, okay, we gotta step back and learn how we're going to get there. Not just keep doing the same thing over and over again.
[00:14:58] Eduardo Briceño: Yeah, I agree. I like the idea of kind of stepping back and thinking in a different way.
So we need to think on different ways, right? We can think about the immediate term and what are my goals for today? And that's really important too. But then making the space, like you said, to step back and think about, okay, how about like our strategy to get to some ambitious goals in a year or in five years.
Not just work goals, but also what I want my life to be like, who do I wanna be?
[00:15:22] Lainie Rowell: Because we just can't keep doing the exact same thing out of habit and what's working right now. It might not actually take us where we wanna go. I think it's really hard to embrace making mistakes. I don't know if that's something that just I struggle with, but it really is that we have to lean into being willing to make mistakes for the purpose of learning. How can we help people get past that?
[00:15:46] Eduardo Briceño: I think one challenge with mistakes is we're a little bit kind of schizophrenic about mistake, meaning, we might think sometimes that mistakes are good and we should do them more. And at other times we might think mistakes are bad, we wanna avoid them. They hurt performance.
And it's a little bit like unclear how to think about mistakes. So, it's helpful to think about different kinds of mistakes and there are actually some mistakes that we wanna be proactive about doing more of those are what I call the stretch mistakes. And we make stretch mistakes by trying things that may or may not work by leaping into a learning zone, by experimenting, and we wanna do those things when it's safe, when we're in a low stakes situation. So when things are high stakes, it's fine to go in the performance zone and to do the tried and true and what you think is not gonna lead to a mistake.
We can never be sure 'cause we're human. We live in a complex world. Sometimes we'll try to do something without mistakes and we'll make a mistake. So we need to be kind to ourselves and understand that everybody makes mistakes and we can learn from them. But you know, if you're in a high stakes situation, doing surgery on somebody, you don't wanna make a mistake, you wanna do your best.
But then when you're not in front of somebody, like how can you experiment with a different technique or try something different so that you can become a better surgeon? Right? So distinguishing the mistakes, the stretch mistakes we make in the learning zone. We want avoid high stakes mistakes in the performance zone.
And then there's two other kinds of mistakes, which are the sloppy mistakes, which are mistakes we've done in the past. We've already learned this lesson, and we're making the mistake again. Again, we wanna be kind with ourselves. Sometimes I find it's nice to just laugh about, sometimes it's just funny and we can just make light of it , and laugh together.
But also if it's important, we can reflect on what can I learn from, you know, I'm repeating this, so what can I change? Usually it's like my systems and my habits, my environment. So I can be maybe more focused, but what can I change? So I avoid this sloppy mistake in the future.
And the fourth kind of mistake is the aha moment mistake, which is when we are performing, we're not trying to make a mistake, but all of a sudden we realized we did something wrong or we did the wrong thing and we have an aha moment. Right. And that's super precious. It's not something that we're creating intentionally, like the stretch mistakes where we're experimenting, but it's something that happens all of a sudden.
It surprises us and what's important is to notice, reflect on it. 'cause we don't learn from mistakes. We learn from reflecting on mistakes. So we need to reflect on it and think about what can I learn from this and what can I change going forward as a result of it. And I think, you know, this is the example of kind of framing what it is that we want to be doing together. Like, do we wanna make mistakes? Well, you know, some kinds of mistakes we wanna do more of, some of them we might wanna do less of, but like framing and getting on the same page, getting aligned and then creating the systems and habits in order for that to happen.
[00:18:40] Lainie Rowell: I appreciate that you're very specific on, there's different types of mistakes and I think we can all relate to, like, I can think of a sloppy mistake I made this morning, like that doesn't take that long to think about. But these stretch mistakes that are low stakes, that when we reflect on we can really grow right.
[00:18:59] Eduardo Briceño: Yeah.
[00:19:00] Lainie Rowell: All of 'em give you opportunities for reflection.
[00:19:03] Eduardo Briceño: Absolutely. Yeah. Any mistake. Absolutely. All of them are opportunities for, for growth. Yeah.
[00:19:08] Lainie Rowell: So what can leaders do to kind of model this and hopefully cultivate this in their communities, whether it's workforce like in a corporate space or educators in a learning community. How do we model this , and I think some people might actually be worried about, does this undermine my credibility if I make these mistakes? Mm-hmm. So, so what do we do as leaders to model this?
[00:19:34] Eduardo Briceño: Yeah, sometimes people might feel it might undermine my credibility or it might portray me as not being confident of myself.
And so we need to work on our own mental models, and think about how do I make this fit my mental models or change my mental models for this to make sense? And you know, one way is to realize that the most skilled people in the world, they continue to experiment and to get better, right?
And to make mistakes and learn from mistakes and get better. So, for example, you know, we can think about somebody like Simone Biles, right? She's the best in the world at what she does, but the reason she's the best in the world is that during practice, she puts like foam blocks. You, you know, she, she tries new moves.
She experiments with new ways of doing the acrobatics, and she makes it safe. You know, she makes it a low stake setting. So she lands on foam blocks because she knows she's gonna be experimenting with some things that might or might not work. She's gonna' gonna require more tweaks and she doesn't want to get hurt.
But this doesn't make her less confident. It is rather than confidence that I know, and that I'm sure it's confidence in the process that gets us to success. It's like, okay, if I'm doing something ambitious, like I want, I. You know, all my kids to thrive in a classroom, or I want our team and our organization to create incredible products and services that will delight people and really change their lives.
I definitely don't have all the answers. That world's gonna change, and we're gonna need to learn from that and adapt. But I can be confident that if we do these behaviors, if we are customer centric, if we ask questions and we observe and we learn from that, we experiment, we share with each other ideas and, that's gonna make us stronger, that's gonna help us grow faster and improve our performance. And it is the people who can model those behaviors. That's actually a sign of confidence and of competence. And the challenge with that is that sometimes it is more difficult to engage in these behaviors when we're novices.
Like when we don't know that much. Mm-hmm. We might be scared of engaging in some behaviors because we feel like other people will see that we're novices and they might not value us, or they might think that we're not the right person for the team. And, and so this is a challenge is what I call the flywheel of competence, a flywheel is a wheel that is really heavy and so it's really hard to start turning.
But once you start turning because of inertia, , it keeps turning and if you put more effort into it, it turns faster and it just keeps turning and you put a little more effort into it over time and it goes faster and faster and faster. And it's hard to stop because of the inertia. And the more that we engage in the learning zone, the more we grow our skills and we grow more competent, and we can become more both competent and confident that we are effective learners and that we can perform well, and that enables us to better model learning and to lead learning, which makes us more effective leaders. And the acceleration just grows over time, right?
So sometimes it's hard to get started, but the more we do it and we can start in small ways, in less risky ways ideally in frequent ways that helps us kind of rewire our brains. But the more we do it, the easier it becomes over time and the more it becomes a, a habit.
[00:22:56] Lainie Rowell: I love the example of Simone Biles because we see her as a symbol of strength and definitely confidence and competence and the explanation that she's experimenting safely.
She's got the foam, she's doing it in a low stake setting, and I think that's really helpful because really it's courageous. But it's not reckless, right? She's not just going out and doing it on the floor in a way that she could actually truly injure herself. That would be really, really scary.
And so for us as leaders to model that, it shows that this is something courageous to do, not something that we need to be scared of, not something that's reckless. It's kind of right there in that sweet spot.
[00:23:45] Eduardo Briceño: Yes. And if we are in front of a really important client and a really important deal, like we can think about is there safety here or do we just wanna perform?
And either answer's fine, but we can go into that meeting more deliberate about where do I wanna be? Do I wanna be experimenting in big ways or small ways, or do I just wanna try to get the deal like, and we can be more intentional.
[00:24:08] Lainie Rowell: I love it. We had a chance to talk before we hit record. And you mentioned that there's something near and dear to my heart that is also a very important part of your life. Could you tell me how gratitude fits into your life?
[00:24:20] Eduardo Briceño: Absolutely. Yeah.
So I once went through like a core life crisis and I became really sick, and that's what led me to pivot and get into this work eventually. But one of the things I did is I read a book by a Dalai Lama called The Art of Happiness. And coming out of that, I had a lot of insights, but one of 'em was just the importance of gratitude.
And so for me. My most important habit in my life is, is the morning habit. It's the first thing I do every day, and that's because. Nothing has distracted me. Right. I can be most proactive. I always have the same cue every day, which is waking up and I can be intentional about how I show up and how I want to live if I'm not doing it reactively based on emails or, you know, social media or news.
But the very, very first thing that I do every day when I wake up and I decide I'm gonna get outta bed is I just, you know, get in my back and I just. I express gratitude to the things that I deem most important, which is kind of life, health, love, and peace. And so I pay attention to, I see each of those things as a, a glass, partly full.
You know, there's life, but there's also death. There's peace, but there's also conflict. And both because of our psychology and because of the systems in the world, our attention tends to be drawn to the negative, to the threat, you know, to the bad things happening. So I wanna be intentional about paying attention to A, what's most important, and B, what's good about those things? What is there, what is present? And I find that's the most important habit for me because it puts me in like an emotional state where I can make the most of life. And also it's an emotional state where that also lends itself to kind of learning and performing.
But it's just the experience of life is really kind of primed each day by that first habit of the day. So I, I really value gratitude and thank you for your important work on that.
[00:26:09] Lainie Rowell: Oh, you're very kind and I appreciate that. I do see that as a great way to ground yourself and start the day and as you're telling how we get shifted throughout the day.
We're in a meeting and there's an energy or maybe someone says something, not that they necessarily mean anything by it, but it still impacts us. We perceive it a certain way. And so when we start with that intentionality of these are the things that are good in the world, in my life. I think that's a really beautiful practice and obviously it means a lot to me.
So I know some people end the day with it, start the day with it, whatever works best for you. But I do think there is a lot of value in starting the day with it. 'cause that just kind of sets the tone for the whole day. So thank you for sharing that.
[00:26:52] Eduardo Briceño: Yeah, sure. And it also, for me, it's like sometimes we might get wrapped up in other things that are less important, like, you know, money or earthly success, whatever that is like, and so just that helps put everything in perspective as well.
[00:27:09] Lainie Rowell: I appreciate that. Thank you so much for sharing that. Now my second to last question for you, Eduardo, is what is something you haven't had a chance to share yet, or something you can't share enough? And it could be in our conversation here, or it could be just in general, out in the world. Like you would scream this from rooftops. It's so important.
[00:27:29] Eduardo Briceño: You know, something that I have learned a lot and been thinking a lot about over the last year after I wrote my book was, is kind of the concept of yin yang and the concept of there's opposing but complimentary forces that we wanna have in harmony and have the right balance of. I just see it everywhere and it's, it's something that, you know, sometimes we tend to think about things as binary.
Like it's either this or this, and it's often both. And actually this came up because. I was asked to write the preface for the Chinese edition of my book. And and so I asked ChatGPT for ideas on what I could talk about in that preface that that connected with Chinese history and context. And one of the ideas that ChatGPT came up with, which I loved, was this philosophy of yin yang of the learning zone in the performance zone being opposing, but complimentary forces that we need to build harmony and they're both, you know, and so that is so true. And, and then I see it so much on so many other levels. And so one other level that I've seen recently as an example, is I've started to hear a lot more need from the organizations I serve to help their people cope with anxiety from all the instability in the world, right?
Everything that's happening. So my work, traditionally I talk about kinda change and growth and that's is growth mindset and learning zone is all about that. But I've started to also talk more about kind of stability and our need for stability. So if you think about Yin Yang, there is our need for change and progress and evolution, but there's also a need for stability and what doesn't change. And safety in terms of knowing what we can expect from one another. And I think that's something also to notice is just how can we create whether it is habits or values or understanding and how we communicate what we can expect from one another.
So what we can create that safety and and stability for us to then also take risks and grow.
[00:29:38] Lainie Rowell: Yeah, I, I appreciate that. I also, as you, as you're talking about stability, I'm also thinking about like, I guess if stability was the yin, the yang would be like uncertainty. It's like they both exist and how can you kind of find the balance of leaning into each of them?
I don't know if that makes any sense, but
[00:29:57] Eduardo Briceño: Yeah, I agree. And what that makes me think about is that on stability and uncertainty can also generate kind of curiosity and going on an exploration that it can be interesting and fulfilling and something that is not. We don't need to control everything in our lives.
We can be in collaboration with other people and with the environment, with the world in a way that makes life more interesting and fulfilling.
[00:30:26] Lainie Rowell: Yeah. That impermanence of it's going to continue to change, right? The only thing that's certain is change. So yes, leaning into that, oh my goodness, this has been so much wisdom.
I'm so excited to get this out there, and I know that people are gonna wanna learn more from you, so what are the best ways to connect with you? And of course they definitely need to go out, get The Performance Paradox like right now. You can even pause and then come back and listen to the rest of us talking, but definitely go out and get your book. What are other ways they should connect with you?
[00:30:55] Eduardo Briceño: I'm most active in LinkedIn, so I invite people to connect with me there and be in conversation with me there. And in addition to the book, if people want, they can download a PDF with five tips to foster a growth mindset from my website, which is briceno.com. So it's briceno.com.
I have a monthly newsletter if people are interested in continuing to learn about growth mindset and the learning zone.
[00:31:16] Lainie Rowell: I'm gonna put links to all of that in the show notes because I know people are gonna wanna keep learning from you. I mean, the body of work you've put out there is so impressive. It's very inspiring to me and to many and I just, I thank you so much for this time.
When you said yes to this, I was like, oh my gosh, I get to talk to him again. I get to talk to Eduardo and learn from him some more. So I very much appreciate this time.
[00:31:39] Eduardo Briceño: Thank you, Lainie. I appreciate you and everything you do and I'm so glad that we reconnected. So thank you so much for that.
[00:31:45] Lainie Rowell: Oh, you're very kind and thank you all for listening.
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