Shownotes:
What if the traits you’ve been downplaying are actually your biggest advantage in love and life?
In this high-energy conversation, Case Kenny—host of New Mindset, Who Dis? and author of The Opposite of Settling—flips the script on dating, self-worth, and the kind of connection that makes you more yourself, not less. We talk about why being “cringe” can be your superpower, the surprising link between security and independence, and how to spot the kind of partner who amplifies your spark instead of dimming it.
If you’ve ever wondered how to keep your standards high, your heart open, and your weird fully intact, this one’s for you.
Thrive Global Article:
About Our Guest:
Case is on a mission to help people live more optimistic, mindful, and authentic lives. Since 2014, he has been writing, speaking, and teaching practical ways to cultivate self-awareness, build confidence, and quiet the overthinking mind. His podcast New Mindset, Who Dis? has resonated with millions of listeners, and his viral red pen writing on Instagram reaches hundreds of millions more. Through his best-selling journals, debut book That’s Bold of You, and live workshops around the world, he empowers people to challenge self-doubt through actionable mindfulness practices and trust that the best is yet to come. In addition to his work with the general public, Case also works with athletes to strengthen their mental resilience through guided mindfulness and journaling, helping them process transitions, overcome mental blocks, and build lasting confidence.
About Lainie:
Lainie Rowell is a bestselling author, award-winning educator, and TEDx speaker. She is dedicated to human flourishing, focusing on community building, emotional intelligence, and honoring what makes each of us unique and dynamic through learner-driven design. She earned her degree in psychology and went on to earn both a post-graduate credential and a master's degree in education. An international keynote speaker, Lainie has presented in 41 states as well as in dozens of countries across 4 continents. As a consultant, Lainie’s client list ranges from Fortune 100 companies like Apple and Google to school districts and independent schools. Learn more at linktr.ee/lainierowell.
Website - LainieRowell.com
Instagram - @LainieRowell
LinkedIn - @LainieRowell
X/Twitter - @LainieRowell
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Transcript:
[00:00:12] Lainie Rowell: Well Case, welcome. I am so excited to have you here.
[00:00:16] Case Kenny: Thanks for having me. Of course.
[00:00:17] Lainie Rowell: Well, let's get started. I'm super excited to talk about your brand new out in the world, they need to go to Amazon or their favorite bookstore and pick up The Opposite of Settling.
I just wanna tell you, I love how this book feels like it's about optimism and a call to action to be your authentic self. I'd love to hear from you, why this book? Why now?
[00:00:38] Case Kenny: Well, thank you. And yeah, I think honestly that is it.
Like I want to help people be more optimistic in their lives. That is my mission, and I do it through helping people evolve how they speak to themselves, their literal emotional vocabulary. And I think within the context of where do people feel so stuck in life, where do they need to speak to themselves in a kinder way?
I think it's our relationship with ourself and it's our relationship with other people. And I think those are, you know. Perhaps the most two defined areas of life where we settle that is we have low opinions of ourselves, and then in relationships, we settle in relationships, or we assume that there's a certain settling that needs to be done in a relationship, that it's inevitable that we eventually lose our spark and our pizazz.
And I don't think we need to speak to ourselves in that way because I don't think that's the reality. I don't think that is an eventuality. And I think there's a certain way that we can evolve our expectations, our standards, and the way we speak to ourselves to be more optimistic and really that that's what the book is about.
And I call it the Opposite of Settling because it's kind of the opposite of what we've come to assume is going to happen or needs to happen. And yeah, very, very excited about it. It really aligns with, with my work and a big focus on language and, and simplifying things and, you know, not giving people more rules to follow or things like that of just a return to yourself so that you could celebrate yourself both inside and outside of a relationship.
[00:02:03] Lainie Rowell: As someone who is in a relationship, my husband and I have been together for 20 years and married for 16 of that. It was so fun to read this book. And one of the things that really spoke to me was when you basically reframe the idea of being cringe.
And you say it can actually bring us peace and attract the right people. So, so how do we let go of trying to be so polished and just show up as who we really are?
[00:02:31] Case Kenny: Well, I would give one piece of anecdotal research to help ground it in the practical and then maybe go a bit deeper, but it has been shown time and time again by research and statistically relevant data to show that your non-conforming traits are the ones that attract people into your life.
So non-conforming, basically being the ones that you think make you a little bit weird, where you're too passionate, too intense, a little bit cringe. That is the thing that attracts the right people into your life. So take that for what it's worth, but overwhelmingly so. It's shown that the non-conforming trait is the thing, the sense of not being normal is the thing, right?
So any aversion to that is setting you up to be in the opposite direction of the data. That's one. Two, I would just point out the fact that it's referred to in the, in research, in the book as The Liking Gap, basically, you are more likable than you think you are overwhelmingly so. You might not be the world's most likable person.
There might be people who are more likable than you, but overwhelmingly so, when you have a conversation with someone, a stranger, a first date, and you start to get in your head about were you your funniest, best, how self, the majority of the time, you are more likable than you think you are for one. So take that for what it's worth, combine all that with the idea that you should be with someone who celebrates you for the things that make you cringe. And not just that, but like being cringe, not in like a weird performative way, but bringing your realist, weirdest, most passionate self to the first date. It helps you get data more quickly. Right. And isn't that kind of the purpose of dating?
Right? It's to, to meet someone and say maybe, and then to as somewhat quickly as possible to say yes or no. And the best way to do that is to bring that version of yourself to the first date and see if they're on the same level, see if they do the same. So I think I'm very pro be cringe. And it's really, I mean, cringe is the word that we use, right?
But it's really just be real and like, don't dim yourself down. Don't try to hide the best parts of yourself and then be like, well, I'll tell them later. Just be that version of yourself first so that you could see if they're on your level or not. So yeah, that's, that's my thesis. And you know, it's a little bit of mindful reflection, a little bit of of research combined.
[00:04:39] Lainie Rowell: And I really appreciate that you do that so beautifully throughout the book. You bring in your perspective backed by the research and so I really think that...
[00:04:47] Case Kenny: Thank you.
[00:04:47] Lainie Rowell: That's very helpful. Especially again, I am not in pursuit of romantic love right now because I have it, but I really felt like a lot of the things that you were sharing applied to real life relationships in general.
And so I think that not being cringe, that's not just in pursuing a romantic partner, but even just in friendships and with those we work with, because , The Liking Gap. Yeah. We, we underestimate how cool the quirky is, right?
[00:05:16] Case Kenny: I agree. And I think also like within the context of like more aligned thinking, it's like the purpose of a relationship is one where you feel like you are returning to yourself and returning to someone else.
You're coming home to yourself and you're coming home to someone else. So if you are hiding an element of who you are because you think it's too this or too that, well, you're not coming home to yourself. Like the whole ethos of the book is that the right relationship makes you feel like more of yourself.
Mm-hmm. So if you're entering into dating and relationship and you're hiding an element of yourself, you've already removed yourself from the purpose of a relationship. So I think it's, it's a great first question, and it's like the perfect starting point to evaluate a, a relationship and what you're doing and the purpose of, of love.
[00:06:02] Lainie Rowell: Another point that you make in the book that I kind of honed in on was The Dependency Paradox. Yeah. And I think you do this really beautiful job of yes, lean into who you are, and then also talking about we wanna be connected to someone securely, but that actually makes us free and independent more confidently.
Yeah. And you say it much better in the book, but I'd love for you to talk about that a little bit.
[00:06:27] Case Kenny: Yeah, well, it's, it's really the, this again, 'cause like what I'm trying to help break through is these assumptions that we have and this one being that inevitably a relationship is going to rob you of your pop and your pizazz and your ambition and your, and your, your light, right?
We have this weird thing that like either like there's no good men left or eventually you get in a relationship and you know, as you just get boring, you grow all together and you get boring and I just don't think it does justice the pitch of love. And all that combined, it seems to be that, well, inevitably I'm gonna lose my sense of self and my independence.
And I think a lot of men in particular in their, you know, younger twenties, perhaps think that too, like a relationship is a threat to your independence. And I probably used to fall under that notion. But I've just realized it's not true that the right person makes you feel more independent. The Dependency Paradox is just the simple observation in, in child rearing between child and caregiver, child and and parent, that the closer they are together, the more willing the child is to be independent because the child knows that mom or dad or caregiver has their back.
So they could take a first step, they can go over there, they could do something a little bit outside of comfort zone because they know that their caregiver has their back. And I've always just thought that that was an interesting anecdote. Well, if that's true in, in, and it's, and it's not codependent, right?
It's like the good kind of dependency. If that's true in childhood, why isn't that the same lens at least to look at a relationship in adulthood, that you are close with someone, that you communicate with, someone that you're loyal to someone that you're on the same page with, that someone, so wouldn't you feel free?
Shouldn't you feel free to do things outside of them? I'd say yes. And I'd also say we need to push back against this weird social media cultural thing where it's like, oh, he wants to play golf without you. Something's wrong with the relationship. Oh, she wants to do this outside of him. Something's wrong with the relationship.
I think it's the the best celebration of compatibility and communication that you have and that we should look at the relationship through that lens. Does this relationship make me feel like more of myself? That's the ultimate question. And how do you define yourself? Well, inherently it's independent in a sense.
Maybe that's an ambition, a hobby going for walks on your own. Yes. I think it's a great lens and it pushes back against some of this more negative thinking that says, inevitably you lose your sense of self. And inevitably, if you are independent, it means something wrong. And I think it, it pushes back against both of those notions.
[00:08:57] Lainie Rowell: You also later in the book talk about the Michelangelo Phenomenon. Yeah. And I think this might be a good segue to that too, because we're talking about like, yes, it's, we're secure. We can have our own independence, we can do our own things, but at the same time, what does that partnership bring as far as us becoming our best self. So I'd love for you to talk about that. Yeah.
[00:09:20] Case Kenny: Yeah. So I mean, again, the whole idea of the book is does your partner make you feel like more of yourself? Inherent in a lens like that is, well, who am I? What is myself? What is my best self? What brings me joy? And do they amplify that joy?
What do I do when I'm independent? Do they support that mission? Right? The Michelangelo Phenomenon is the, the psychology and sociology backed observation that with the right connection, similar to how the artist Michelangelo chipped away at a solid piece of marble to reveal the amazing statue of David.
The same is true of a partner. A partner comes into your life and chips away at some of the edges, the rough edges around you to help you reveal your best self, your ideal self, right? And we all have this capability, right? Your ideal self is like, yeah, your best self, so to say. It's the most ambitious, most honest, most adventurous, most carefree, most present self.
And you know, I talk a, in the book a lot about how we are very capable of revealing on our own, independently our ideal self. Yeah, but not to the tune of a hundred percent, maybe like 95%. Yeah, certainly not 50% such that we need a partner in order to step into our best selves, but not a hundred percent and not 50%.
It's like we are fully capable of that, but there's something very special about the right person who comes into your life. It helps reveal that final 5% in a very special way, in a very powerful way. Whether that's them, you know, you're at a party and they're like, Case, tell that joke. And I tell that joke and I step even more into my playful, whimsical self or, Hey, girlfriend, oh, you should, you should really try that business.
And, and it pushes her to make the step into doing something entrepreneurial, right? That, that little push, that little percentage, that presence that you have. I think it's a beautiful sentiment because it speaks to the way that you get more out of life and self through a relationship, not less, which again is the assumption.
It's an inevitability of a less. And then two, it also speaks to the idea that you don't need to wait around for a partner though to really get at your ideal self. You can get very far on your own and you should. You shouldn't be like, well, I need a partner to be my best self. I need a partner to have my best life.
Those are amazing things, of course, but it's not necessarily the center of the universe. So I think it really helps lessen some of the pressure. But then it also reestablishes like a really strong sales pitch for love. They give you that self, that sense of self.
[00:11:48] Lainie Rowell: I love how you say sales pitch for love.
'cause love can often get a bad rap and some people Yeah. Like, I don't know if I'm, I'm into this. I'm trying very, very hard not to turn this into a therapy session for me, but I do think that this was very affirming for me in my relationship because I think what you're saying is that you, you need a partner that's gonna challenge you in the right ways, push you to be your best self and support you.
And so I'm very grateful to my husband who has done that in times where I think other people might have been a little bit threatened. I don't know that I was looking for this. I think I got lucky that this is how he is.
[00:12:23] Case Kenny: Yeah.
Well, it's beautiful. I'm so glad to, to hear that and being in a partnership isn't about just having a, like a roommate and someone present in your lives. Right. It's about that back and forth. It's about noticing. I mean, ultimately that's reestablishing a little bit of the pitch.
It's like love is noticing and when someone notices you at a deep level, they notice maybe what you're capable of that you don't always see. And they help you rise to that occasion. And they also keep you honest on your bs they, they say, Hey, what are we doing here? So I think it's, it's a beautiful balance of keeping you honest and inspiring you and pulling you up a level.
Not pulling you back a level. And I think, again, that's the assumption. It's like, oh, for men, a relationship is gonna make you boring. For women, I, I find a lot of women lose themselves in a relationship. You're pulled back, you're pulled down. This is about up, that's why I call it settling up. It's not settling, it's not settling down, it's settling up.
It's, it's more, and I think that's an exciting thing to look forward to.
[00:13:18] Lainie Rowell: You've said a lot of words that resonate with me Evolving. One of your books, bold is a big word that I lean into and you just were now talking about noticing and like I said, I am lucky that the things I was looking for, I got in my husband and this other thing I didn't even know I was looking for.
And so I think your book helps people notice the things that are most important in a partnership rather than, again, I got lucky in this instance, but I, I think you wanna be noticing these things as you're dating.
[00:13:49] Case Kenny: Yeah. But I, I don't know if you did get lucky. I mean, I would say like a big thesis of the book is that like you create a life you love and love will meet you there.
Mm-hmm. And not necessarily like magically, and it just, you visualize and something happened. But like, there's something to be said about like really stepping into yourself and celebrating yourself and knowing who you are and letting that emanate from your behavior and how you date and how you speak and how that draws in the right person who gives you all these things that maybe you didn't even know you wanted, but your behavior and your mentality towards life drew it in.
So like I really like that idea of like, build a life you love and love will meet you there. Because you know what a life you love looks like and then that attracts the right person who amplifies it and you know quickly whether or not someone can amplify it or not. So it's great to hear that you've, you know, found those things for yourself.
[00:14:39] Lainie Rowell: Well, and I appreciate you giving me credit for it, even if I was doing it subconsciously. I do wanna get to, this is actually something towards the end of the book, but it was so interesting to me that I had never thought about the way you talk about trust. And I really appreciated, and you even say, "Attraction is the minimum. You deserve a love where trust is built, but actions not just promises. And you just share a really practical approach to trust where you talk about the four different elements. Would you be up for sharing that with us?
[00:15:12] Case Kenny: Yeah. I mean, trust is one of those things, right, where it's like, it's the most vulnerable thing you could do, where you can be like, I trust you and it is what it is. But you know, tru trust at a certain point should be all or nothing. I trust this person completely, but I think initially when we're trying to decide if we should trust someone or not, and we don't really know.
I think and, maybe you're one of those, like you're kind of avoidant and you're anxious and, and you don't know, really know what to do. Should I trust this person? I've trusted people in the past and they hurt me. How can I decide if I should trust someone or not? That's like break it down a little bit.
Yeah. I did talk about four different categories. It's credibility was one that I can trust what you say. I trust that you tell me the truth, right when you speak, I trust what you say, credibility. The other one was reliability, right? I trust that you will show up for me. I trust that you'll do what you say you'll do, building on top of it.
The other one was trust of intimacy. Mm-hmm. Right? I trust that I could be open with you, I can be vulnerable with you and you won't throw it back in my face. And the other one was selflessness. I trust that you will care about yourself and you also care about me. And I think that's like breaking down trust in a way that maybe helps us say, okay, I see all those things.
Check, check, check, check. I trust you. Or if one of those isn't there, let's have a conversation. Let's gather a little bit more evidence. I just find it to be a helpful framework when we're struggling to know if we should trust someone or not. 'cause again, it's like the toughest thing to do, and sometimes we just need to prop it up on a bit more evidence and say, okay, it's all there.
I just need to push myself and let's be all into this thing. And then, of course, the ultimate hold yourself to the same standard for your partner.
[00:16:50] Lainie Rowell: Yeah. And I think going back to the noticing, ' it's kind of an ambiguous idea I trust you. Yeah. I mean, I think we know it in our heart, in our minds, we kind of know it, but if someone says, what does it mean to trust someone? So I think these four, the credibility, reliability, intimacy, and selflessness. The way that you frame it is like, Hey, if you're not sure, can you trust this most? Person, ask yourself these questions.
I think that really helps make it very practical and actionable rather than just saying, you should trust your partner.
[00:17:20] Case Kenny: Yeah, it's a good point 'cause honestly, I was just thinking like if someone were to ask me what does it mean to trust someone? I don't think I would have like a good one sentence answer 'cause it's very tough, but like, that was a good answer.
[00:17:32] Lainie Rowell: Yeah.
[00:17:32] Case Kenny: But just 'cause we broke it down. So yeah, I think, I think it's a good antidote to a topic that is tough to define and because it's tough to define, it's tough to find ourselves in that emotion. So it's a, it's a good starting point.
[00:17:44] Lainie Rowell: This is one of my favorite lines in the book. "The most powerful person is someone who decides their self-worth is not a group decision." Hmm. And I think whether we're talking about finding a romantic partner or friendships, , and it goes back to kind of the not being cringey, but to, to go a little deeper into the self-worth aspect of it, I think is an interesting thought.
[00:18:06] Case Kenny: Yeah, I that's a quote that I remember writing on social media a while ago, and it got a lot of, a lot of love and likes and shares and things like that. But I, I think it speaks to the power of self-worth in that as much as other people do, in our minds, validate our self-worth. Right. It's kind of how we measure it.
It is inherently a personal endeavor. I talk in the book about how, like, I struggle with the notion sometimes that you have an enormous amount of self-worth just because you're alive. I think you deserve certain base things, certainly because you're alive and you're human, but self-worth comes from effort, and we could all control effort.
We all have so much to give, and that's where self-worth comes from. Because of the things you do, not the things you say, not because you merely exist, but the things that you do and the way that you offer goodness to other people, romantically, platonically, human wise, like that is where worth comes from and no one can take that from you.
And that's why it's such an inherently personal endeavor is that it's the only measuring stick for it is what you're willing to do. It really doesn't have to do with how it's received, but that's how we tend to measure it. It's a group decision, and that's why I think pushing back against that. Does a a number of things.
For one, it helps. I always say that like the key to optimism and a key to self-worth is a good memory. Like having receipts of all the good things that you put out into the world, the things that you do consistently, the way that you show up for others. That is self-worth, that is optimism for one, because it also says, okay, I've done it before I could do it again.
And good things come from it. So I think it's, it's a really strong starting point there to remind yourself also of like what you bring to the table in those instances where we go on bad dates or have relationships fall apart, and we're like, well, maybe I wasn't enough. I wasn't good enough for this person.
Usually that's not the case. Usually it's a, a, a conversation around incompatibility than it is self-worth. Mm-hmm. And I think coming back to a definition that does not use other people for a group decision of your self-worth reminds us of that fact. So look to your memory is what I encourage people to do.
Look at all those receipts of those things that you've done and you do, and you're committed to ground yourself in that versus the group mentality.
[00:20:21] Lainie Rowell: I really appreciate the, keep the receipts of the good and as someone who, gratitude's a big part of my life, that's what I write and speak about a lot.
And one of the things that I always try to make people aware of if they didn't already know. This is that Gratitude isn't self-effacing. Like be grateful for the good things that you do as well. Obviously we wanna acknowledge when others pour into us, but it's also be grateful for what you do for yourself.
If you go exercise, be grateful that you did that for yourself. If you're reading a book to improve the way you think about something, be grateful for that. So I love keeping the receipts of the good.
[00:20:56] Case Kenny: Yeah, it's helpful for me as well.
[00:20:58] Lainie Rowell: Another one. I mean, I feel like I could just sit here and quote back the book to you, but I did want to share with you, and I think it really kind of brings a lot of the things we've been talking about together where you talk about, "you were put on earth to be so wildly passionate that people can't decide if you're crazy or a genius."
I think that just is another one that really stood out to me.
[00:21:21] Case Kenny: Yeah, I, I love that quote. I mean, people love that quote. I've written it in various formats over the years and included in the book and then wrote basically chapters around it. People just want freedom to, to be that version of themselves, right.
The most carefree, playful, wild, crazy free person. I just think we are so burdened by noise and expectation and timelines that we just feel caged a lot. And then outside of what we talked in the beginning about non-conforming traits and being the weird person because it brings the weirdos into your life on the same frequency, and that's the type of partner you deserve.
I think it's just a, you know, a reminder that a lot of people want to hear. That's like permission to give themselves permission to be that version of themselves because people are realizing that a relationship should make you feel like more of yourself, and if you're a passionate, crazy weirdo, playful.
You know, silly Goose, you, you need to be that person in order to find a relationship that honors it. Otherwise, you're gonna wake up 10 years into a relationship and you're gonna feel trapped. You're gonna feel lonely because you never led with that energy. You hid it in the hopes that someone would maybe warm up to it.
Lead with it. Lead with it. Let some people think that you're weird. Great. You disqualify them. Fantastic. I always say that your passion is a filter for the wrong people and a magnet for the right people. And I believe it. It's like our actions, the purpose of them is to collect information as quickly as we can.
This person doesn't jive with it. Okay, good. I'm not right for them. They're not right for me. This person does amazing. But you have to put things out there to see if they're on the level. That's why it's, you know, you're not here to be perfect. Why would you wanna be perfect? To be perfect would be so that you attract everyone to you in life.
That that's not gonna offer you fulfillment. You want the fellow weirdo person on your same frequency, not only because it honors who you are, it makes you feel like more of yourself, but also the point of a relationship is playfulness. I genuinely believe it, like we've gotten very serious in life and something certainly deserves seriousness in a relationship.
Commitment is serious, but everything else should be a return to play, a return to humor, a return to weird energies. And I think that's also a great lens to look at the healthy relationship. Like, how weird can I be here? Like how weird can I get? So playfulness.
[00:23:42] Lainie Rowell: You talk in the book about they need to be down to clown and I, I down to clown. I agree with that.
I'm curious. So some people might know of you through social media, very, very big presence. And if I said the red marker on the white background, that might like make people go, oh my gosh, I totally know who this is, just in case.
Yeah, sometimes we, we, we don't match the names right away. And I'm just kind of curious, have you written your whole life? Have you always been a writer?
[00:24:12] Case Kenny: I would say, yeah, so at minimum though, I've always had an intense draw to languages. Like I took five years of Latin in high school. I don't know if they still teach Latin, but I was always like really, really good at Latin.
And then I went to college and I majored in Chinese and Arabic languages. So that was every single day in the, it was a major, it wasn't a minor, so it was every single day for hours in both of those languages. There wasn't a lick of English spoken in those classes. Lived in China and then I graduated and ended up working in advertising for a long time, but I always had an intense draw to language and I always wrote as well, like, I'd always write in a blog or I wrote for my school newspaper and high school newspaper and at Notre Dame I wrote for the school newspaper. So I've always loved expression, but I don't think I ever knew why. Really? Mm-hmm. I was just like, oh, I'm good at it.
So I, you know, you gravitate towards what you're good at. But now it's like, it makes so much sense. 37 now until I look back 15 years, 20 years, and to be like, oh, I was drawn to the language. Because of the way that there's energy with language. The way that language has the ability to create your reality.
The way that words shape how you feel a feeling, you name a feeling a certain way that dictates how you feel, the feeling with the word you. You call something loneliness, or you call it me time. Totally dictates how you experience the loneliness or the me time. And now it makes sense why I've always been drawn to it.
I think at the time, like many things in life, we don't realize it until later. And now, luckily I have the, the gifts and the privilege to step into that as a job and as a, as a human. But yeah, I love, for me it's the written word and sometimes the spoken word as well. But for me it's all about writing and handwriting.
[00:25:47] Lainie Rowell: I've followed you for a long time on Instagram.
[00:25:49] Case Kenny: Oh, thank you.
[00:25:50] Lainie Rowell: I think sometimes people could and I'm sure I'm guilty of this too, they can scroll through someone who's doing really well on social media and they can be like, wow, this person just like nailed it with no effort.
And to me, what I would think when I would go through your Instagram is like. This is someone who loves to write, they like to use writing as a way to clarify their thinking and to get rid of the mental clutter. And that is how I think this person has come to write things that resonate with people so deeply.
I realize that's not a question.
[00:26:21] Case Kenny: Well, I mean, you nailed it. I mean, that's how I find clarity and you know, and I, and I lead these workshops all over the US for, for corporate groups and communities and, and all these things. And it's always, I need you to write it down. Like I do these guided reflections for people to help people be more optimistic.
Mm-hmm. And like it is not finished. Until we write it down, we have to write these things down. 'cause word choice is clarity, and clarity is optimism. And, we have to choose the right words. And so like some of these quotes that I write on Instagram, 12 words, but it takes me an hour to write one of them.
And that's not because I'm like trying to be overly poetic. I am just trying to come up with words that honor a feeling, but set us free to be able to believe in goodness beyond it. And that is the key and that is the challenge. And to me, I love it. I absolutely love it. I mean, complex topics are made simple through word choice, not just through understanding.
Like if you understand a topic, that's one thing. Can you write it down in 14 words? That's another thing. Yeah. And then also my mission of helping people just feel seen in general and giving them something that they could touch and, and, and feel. And I, people like tattoo them sometimes on their arms, which is crazy.
So yeah. I love it. I do love it. So your, your statement is accurate.
[00:27:30] Lainie Rowell: Well, and I just wanted to share that with you because as I'm reciting your quotes back to you, which is always a bit funny I just wanted you to know that yes, they make us feel seen, but also for me personally, I know what it takes for someone to get to that level.
You're very intentional and I love how you can work words into a way that make. Us feel something. So
[00:27:52] Case Kenny: Thank you.
[00:27:53] Lainie Rowell: A thank you to you. What is something that you haven't shared yet?
You can even just think of it as in our conversation here, or just maybe a lot publicly, something you haven't shared yet or hadn't had a chance to share yet, or something that you have shared, but you can't share it enough. Like you would jump on a rooftop and scream this, jump on tables and scream this.
Is there anything that you're like, I just really need people to hear this?
[00:28:17] Case Kenny: Yeah, I mean, I think it, it's all related to the idea of optimism. Like that's why I wrote the book to help people be more optimistic. And I think a lot of times people think optimism is think happy thoughts and just like think about what can go right and I think that's true.
But I think the key to optimism, the key to being hopeful isn't always forward facing. It's in your memory. So like that's why I always do say like the key to being optimistic is having a good memory. Back to our conversation earlier about collecting receipts, reminding yourself of your ability to survive and evolve and overcome.
And we all have so many examples in our lives of times where we were like, man, I think this is gonna destroy me. And it didn't. Mm-hmm. About times when you're like, I have so much on my plate, there's no way I'm gonna get it done. And you did the times when you were like, man, I'm really unsure of myself. I have no idea what I'm doing..
And you figured it out. That is the source of optimism for the future. And we all have that. And I encourage people to write it down so that when you're in the moment and you're obsessed on the future and your future, and your future and your future, you can think back to those things and say, I've been here before and I did it.
So let's keep going. I think it's a helpful mentality in a world where we're so obsessed with what's over there, where what's over here maybe will give us hope to get to what's over there. So that, that's something I certainly repeat a lot, but it's a, it's a helpful kind of reframing for optimism.
[00:29:36] Lainie Rowell: I appreciate that and I've been writing it down and I think you've seen me, I've been writing it down as we've been talking.
[00:29:42] Case Kenny: Yes. That makes it real. That makes it real.
[00:29:42] Lainie Rowell: That makes it real. Yeah. It helps me hold onto, it helps me make it mine. So I appreciate that and I really wanna encourage people to check out your book, The Opposite of Settling: How to Get Everything You Want Out of Love and Life Without Losing Your Spark is now available. So check that out. And then Case, I mean, I've already dropped the Instagram, but what is the best way for people to connect with you?
[00:30:08] Case Kenny: Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you for having me. I, I appreciate it. This was a great, great chat. CaseKenny.com has access to everything. Podcast, New Mindset, Who Dis? And then you of course on, on Instagram. But yeah, I won't shut up about it. So you could probably find the book everywhere and but CaseKenny.com will have more details and links.
[00:30:26] Lainie Rowell: The podcast. I looked this morning over 700 episodes. I think it was 722. Don't quote me on that, anyone. By the time this comes out, it'll be more anyways. But that's just like incredible. So how many years have you been podcasting?
[00:30:38] Case Kenny: Seven. So it's like, yeah, it's like a hundred a year basically. So.
[00:30:42] Lainie Rowell: That's a lot, my friend.
[00:30:43] Case Kenny: But I love it.
[00:30:44] Lainie Rowell: And we love listening. You so keep it coming and thank you. Appreciate it. So you have another new podcast? Did I see that?
[00:30:51] Case Kenny: So I am hosting a podcast now with my friends over at Nice News. NiceNews.com is like a daily email newsletter of nice news, positive news.
And we started a podcast to go together called Nice News Today, where I basically twice a week, take 10 minutes to give you some good news. You know, the opposite of bad news, the thing that we're kind of beat over the head with so frequently. Yeah. So if you want some good news, if you want a reason to be a little bit more hopeful and to realize that there's a good thing or two out there it's called Nice News Today.
[00:31:19] Lainie Rowell: I so appreciate that. Again, you're doing a lot, and thank you for being in all the places for us. I'll make sure and put thank everything in the show notes. Definitely in the Thrive Global article.
Well, Case, I am feeling very optimistic after this conversation and after reading the book, and so again, I encourage people to check out the book, The Opposite of Settling. And thank you for being here, my friend.
[00:31:39] Case Kenny: Thank you. Thank you so much.
